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Unread 2017-08-08, 02:50 PM   #1
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Default The ACA's Downward Spiral in GA, CA, and NV - brought to you by Trump

its obviously got some of its own inherent flaws that need redressing but the next time you hear the President talk about "letting Obamacare fail" or its "death spiral" remember that its much more like the abusive husband talking about how "clumsy" his wife is and how she's always falling down the stairs... she may well be clumsy but I'm pretty sure the fact that you pushed her didn't help

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN1AN25N
Quote:
...Anthem blamed the moves in part on uncertainty over whether the Trump administration would maintain subsidies that keep costs down.

U.S. President Donald Trump last week threatened to cut off subsidy payments that make the plans affordable for lower-income Americans and help insurers to keep premiums down, after efforts to repeal the law signed by his predecessor, President Barack Obama, failed in Congress.
...
https://thenevadaindependent.com/art...al-uncertainty
Quote:
...The exchange’s executive director Heather Korbulic said that uncertainty over whether cost-sharing reduction payments from the federal government to insurance carriers will continue and whether any changes to the individual mandate have created “constant ambiguity” for insurers. President Donald Trump has been deciding whether to continue the payments, which help lower deductibles and copays for roughly 7 million low income individuals who buy insurance on the exchange, on a month-by-month basis, referring to them as a “bailout” for insurance companies.
...
again, I'm all for dealing with the reality of the ACA's flaws and its bad assumptions now that we have data on what the market will actually look like, but to only focus on the results and not recognize some of the major causes have been unnecessary and seemingly purposeful sabotages by everyone from Rubio to Trump means that you're only getting half the story.

*edit
even Fox News can't help but point out Trump and Republicans' roles:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...are-plans.html
Quote:
...The Journal reported that insurers are concerned about Trump’s threat to halt payments to the industry that in turn help bring down costs, as well as whether Republicans will continue to enforce the individual mandate to buy insurance.

According to the Journal, one insurer in Montana linked the bulk of its proposed 23 percent increase to those two concerns.
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Unread 2017-08-08, 04:03 PM   #2
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Failure of the ACA was all a part of Obamas plan, it is working as designed. Why hang this on Trump.

I know, if Trump had said lets just go to single payer, he would be a hero to the left.

I'm with Trump on this, let it fail as designed by Obama.
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Unread 2017-08-08, 04:36 PM   #3
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Failure of the ACA was all a part of Obamas plan, it is working as designed. Why hang this on Trump.

I know, if Trump had said lets just go to single payer, he would be a hero to the left.

I'm with Trump on this, let it fail as designed by Obama.
Why would you want him to let "obama's plan" come to fruition?
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Unread 2017-08-08, 04:48 PM   #4
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Why would you want him to let "obama's plan" come to fruition?
Maybe people will wake up and see Obama as the big failure he was and hopefully we can fix the healthcare system in the future.

Failure was only phase one of his plan, phase two was supposed to be implemented by his Democratic successor but that was thwarted by Trump being elected.

Phase two was the proposed single payer implementation to fix it.
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Unread 2017-08-08, 05:35 PM   #5
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Maybe people will wake up and see Obama as the big failure he was and hopefully we can fix the healthcare system in the future.
Because Obama's reputation is what is preventing us from healthcare system reform?
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Unread 2017-08-08, 07:18 PM   #6
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No, Obamas reputation and healthcare reform are two different things.

We can let his plan fail, then when people are ready, maybe after the mid-terms and we get rid of some of the political class, then we can get serious about reform.

People aren't ready to reform anything seriously until it gets really bad.

Healthcare should be left to market forces just like food.
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Unread 2017-08-08, 08:12 PM   #7
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Food isn't left to market forces
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Unread 2017-08-08, 08:19 PM   #8
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Food isn't left to market forces


You've obviously never seen Trading Places
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Unread 2017-08-09, 11:50 AM   #9
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What if we paid all of the money we pay for healthcare and it went straight into healthcare? Look at your paychecks, why do you need to pay healthcare plus profits for the insurance industry?

We need to stamp down the influence of the insurance industry in politics. The members of congress and the senate have fantastic healthcare at probably a lower cost than most people on here pay. They and all federal workers get that most likely because they're negotiating for a large pool of people paying in. So they're getting phenomenal healthcare and meanwhile Aetna or BCBS or whoever is lobbying the shit out of politicians to be able to sell people in probably a cornered market of bf wherever a shit barebones plan that costs $800/month for a single person. So what if we all got access to the federally negotiated plans? I'm talking full coverage for a family for $400/month or less. That's what they get.

The unfortunate thing is that the legislation has already been proposed and shut down multiple times. Wonder why they don't want us to have it cheaper?

The bottom line is that people pay too much, and it doesn't have to be that way. And letting insurance companies have their ways is not the answer when their incentive for profit is perverse. How do you make more money? Cover less people, it's that simple. You can be anti government all you want, but the insurance companies are never gonna have your back over profits. You can advocate through government for someone who actually has your back.
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Unread 2017-08-09, 12:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DIYAutoRepair View Post
Maybe people will wake up and see Obama as the big failure he was and hopefully we can fix the healthcare system in the future.

Failure was only phase one of his plan, phase two was supposed to be implemented by his Democratic successor but that was thwarted by Trump being elected.

Phase two was the proposed single payer implementation to fix it.
Big failure? Sorry bub I just don't see it. FWIW I don't seem him as any sort of big success either.

As for the rest...tin foil hat much?
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Unread 2017-08-09, 12:41 PM   #11
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What if we paid all of the money we pay for healthcare and it went straight into healthcare? Look at your paychecks, why do you need to pay healthcare plus profits for the insurance industry?

We need to stamp down the influence of the insurance industry in politics. The members of congress and the senate have fantastic healthcare at probably a lower cost than most people on here pay. They and all federal workers get that most likely because they're negotiating for a large pool of people paying in. So they're getting phenomenal healthcare and meanwhile Aetna or BCBS or whoever is lobbying the shit out of politicians to be able to sell people in probably a cornered market of bf wherever a shit barebones plan that costs $800/month for a single person. So what if we all got access to the federally negotiated plans? I'm talking full coverage for a family for $400/month or less. That's what they get.

The unfortunate thing is that the legislation has already been proposed and shut down multiple times. Wonder why they don't want us to have it cheaper?

The bottom line is that people pay too much, and it doesn't have to be that way. And letting insurance companies have their ways is not the answer when their incentive for profit is perverse. How do you make more money? Cover less people, it's that simple. You can be anti government all you want, but the insurance companies are never gonna have your back over profits. You can advocate through government for someone who actually has your back.
I think in theory you can make that argument for almost any industry... airlines, building cars, farming food, etc etc. People out there making a profit for things we all need... government should step in and take care of it all and eliminate the profits!!

That's not how capitalism works, and I wouldn't want it to. Keep in mind the government takes away the insurance companies via the VA... and it's not some perfect happy/fair system. Further, they institute an administration setup via DHA/Tricare that mimics much of what the insurance companies do.

I can see why people would want a single-payer setup. However, until we go that route, removing insurance companies and their profits, is NOT going to fix our problem... it would make it worse.

EDIT: I'll also add, you can advocate for someone who has your back via government... however you really just get someone who is bought/paid for via lobby dollars and our fucked up system. For every bad corporation out there, I can point to at least two fucked up government situations. Look no further than who our idiot in chief is... hopefully we can "advocate" him out?
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Unread 2017-08-09, 03:59 PM   #12
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Big failure? Sorry bub I just don't see it.
OK, so no big failure, then nothing needs to be done.
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Unread 2017-08-09, 08:22 PM   #13
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When Aetna walks away with $2.9B, yes billion, in net income for 2016, I'd say there's a HUGE problem with our for-profit healthcare system.

A few months ago my daughter got an arm buckle fracture (i.e. a really minor arm break). I had to take her to the ER at Child's Mercy because all the clinics were closed. She got at xray, an arm brace, and some meds. That cost me $1700 with my Aetna discount. We then were contacted by Children's Mercy the day after to have a nurse practitioner do a more detailed review. We said ok and didn't think about cost since it was a typical doctors appointment. My daughter had an initial visit with the NP that lasted 15 minutes. No xray, no cast. 4 weeks later she had a follow-up visit to confirm removal of her brace. 10 minute visit. Total cost billed to us for 25 minutes of work with a NP? $2300. Why do you ask? Because Children's Mercy bills a flat rate whether you got a cast, numerous xrays, and had a compound fracture with a bone poking out or if you had a very minor buckle fracture which heals in a couple weeks with children. We said no f-ing way when we inquired about this to Children's Mercy. We've basically told them to try again and reconsider the bill because we're not paying the equivalent of $4600/hr. We have a patient advocate working on this. I doubt they'll get far. It will probably end with us offering take it or leave it $500 settlement or a come-at-me-bro letter from yours truly. I ain't paying $2300. LOL

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Unread 2017-08-09, 09:11 PM   #14
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Your bill includes covering the costs of the less fortunate who cant pay. Why are yoy being so selfish.
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Unread 2017-08-09, 09:33 PM   #15
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Just like with Trump, I draw the line at pure stupidity.
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Unread 2017-08-09, 09:55 PM   #16
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When Aetna walks away with $2.9B, yes billion, in net income for 2016, I'd say there's a HUGE problem with our for-profit healthcare system.

A few months ago my daughter got an arm buckle fracture (i.e. a really minor arm break). I had to take her to the ER at Child's Mercy because all the clinics were closed. She got at xray, an arm brace, and some meds. That cost me $1700 with my Aetna discount. We then were contacted by Children's Mercy the day after to have a nurse practitioner do a more detailed review. We said ok and didn't think about cost since it was a typical doctors appointment. My daughter had an initial visit with the NP that lasted 15 minutes. No xray, no cast. 4 weeks later she had a follow-up visit to confirm removal of her brace. 10 minute visit. Total cost billed to us for 25 minutes of work with a NP? $2300. Why do you ask? Because Children's Mercy bills a flat rate whether you got a cast, numerous xrays, and had a compound fracture with a bone poking out or if you had a very minor buckle fracture which heals in a couple weeks with children. We said no f-ing way when we inquired about this to Children's Mercy. We've basically told them to try again and reconsider the bill because we're not paying the equivalent of $4600/hr. We have a patient advocate working on this. I doubt they'll get far. It will probably end with us offering take it or leave it $500 settlement or a come-at-me-bro letter from yours truly. I ain't paying $2300. LOL
Shit on insurance companies... Then describe a hospital billing/fraud issue?
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Unread 2017-08-09, 10:15 PM   #17
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Shit on insurance companies... Then describe a hospital billing/fraud issue?
My problem is with the whole for profit health system. I know many of you take offense because you and/or your spouse work in the industry and do quite well financially thus the vested interest in maintaining the system, as is.
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Unread 2017-08-09, 10:41 PM   #18
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Shit on insurance companies... Then describe a hospital billing/fraud issue?
ironically saw this yesterday and it actually talks to this issue specifically and points to private insurance having a role in this very thing:
Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

Video URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8
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Unread 2017-08-09, 10:49 PM   #19
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Adam is spot on. Trust me. I'm a professional.

PS: She said she had a cold and was going to get Antibiotics. Bad.
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Unread 2017-08-10, 12:56 AM   #20
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ironically saw this yesterday and it actually talks to this issue specifically and points to private insurance having a role in this very thing:
Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

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Adam is spot on. Trust me. I'm a professional.

PS: She said she had a cold and was going to get Antibiotics. Bad.
Just chiming in to say I posted that on my FB wall like 2 weeks ago.

I believe he's spot on, and fixing/regulating pricing, transparency, and tort reform is our best option.
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Unread 2017-08-10, 12:59 AM   #21
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My problem is with the whole for profit health system. I know many of you take offense because you and/or your spouse work in the industry and do quite well financially thus the vested interest in maintaining the system, as is.
I agree completely on this post.

I am NOT one of those that benefits from the system, quite the opposite.

Our system is massively flawed, due to an extreme hybrid mix of free market, government intrusion, many payors, 50-state guidelines, constant government regulation changes, and an incredibly litigious society. I feel it's an easy scapegoat to blame insurance companies though.
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Unread 2017-08-10, 09:24 AM   #22
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Just chiming in to say I posted that on my FB wall like 2 weeks ago.
just chiming in to say that maybe some of us don't stalk you the way we used to... long distance relationships create a strain that are only remedied by you bringing your ass back to KC
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Unread 2017-08-10, 11:06 AM   #23
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just chiming in to say that maybe some of us don't stalk you the way we used to... long distance relationships create a strain that are only remedied by you bringing your ass back to KC
I need to visit badly... my family there would love to meet my son, I need a Chiefs game, and some fucking BBQ!

I'll hit you up when I come back for sure.
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Unread 2017-08-10, 11:11 AM   #24
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ironically saw this yesterday and it actually talks to this issue specifically and points to private insurance having a role in this very thing:
Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

Video URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8
(Off topic) Is that show any good? I've seen it advertised places and it has peaked my interest, but I've never sat down and watched it yet.
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Unread 2017-08-10, 11:15 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Keboh View Post
(Off topic) Is that show any good? I've seen it advertised places and it has peaked my interest, but I've never sat down and watched it yet.
it can be pretty interesting. I've not noticed too much editorializing but I'm sure its there to a degree. I actually enjoy how when he makes a particular point they will reference the place where that conclusion was drawn from so you can look it up and get more info if you really care to.

I feel like most of the time its either challenging assumptions I'd already made or helping me understand the how/why we ended up in whatever current societal situation we're in.
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Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ”all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except negroes” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.” When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocricy. - Lincoln
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