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Unread 2018-01-18, 01:35 PM   #1
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Default Using Kids as Literal Bargaining Chips

for those unaware, there is a children's health insurance program that expired in September (CHIP) that the Republicans in Congress have yet to approve a renewal for and the program is running dangerously low at the state level to the point where kids are starting to feel the effects.

the House had one vote on it where they tried to steal the money from ACA programs to fund it, the Senate never even tried to vote on that bill. however in the past couple of months, its come to light that the CHIP program quite literally saves the gov't and taxpayers money so there are literally no offsets needed - a clean bill could be passed on a voice vote along with the next post office naming bill and kids across the country would get insurance and necessary medical treatment and taxpayers would save money.

however, Republicans in Congress have decided to use sick kids as a bargaining chip in the ongoing spending negotiations against Democrats... they openly tell people that they are framing the issue as Dems not wanting the spending bill so they are hurting sick kids...

this is your Republican Congress... they could just remove the politics from it and help sick kids while reducing the deficit but instead they would rather use kids as a cudgel to try and get Democrats to vote for a bunch of other shit that they want.

either Republicans are willing to fuck over sick kids or they don't understand leverage. i.e. if Republicans aren't willing to fuck over a bunch of sick kids? then this isn't really much of a bargaining chip because both sides say they want it.


fun part is that Trump weighed in this morning via Twitter (and actually said something reasonable) until someone apparently pointed out that he was pointing out the monstrosity of the current Republican plan to use kids as a bargaining chip and the WH had to walk it back
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Unread 2018-01-18, 01:41 PM   #2
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I had sick kids too.


I got a job, got health insurance, and then didnít have to worry about it.


Less hand outs, please.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 01:49 PM   #3
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I had sick kids too.
I got a job, got health insurance, and then didn’t have to worry about it.
Less hand outs, please.


snark aside, that's great but that's not how it works for everyone and every kid. this program literally saves the gov't and taxpayers money vs relying solely on people to take care of it themselves... plus, ya know, it literally saves kids lives.

so while everyone generally wants people to get onboard the self-sufficiency train dream, that's not realistic in the short-term so the rest of us will deal with reality for awhile and advocate on behalf of a program that helps kids and the nation's bottom line.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 02:01 PM   #4
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Helps the nationís bottom line?

Ha!

You mean itís the cheapest way to pick my pockets.


Iím not advocating for letting children die in the streets, but if they have parents those parents should have to pay the money back.

Ass, gas, or cash. Nobody rides for free!
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Unread 2018-01-18, 02:04 PM   #5
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snark aside, that's great but that's not how it works for everyone and every kid. this program literally saves the gov't and taxpayers money vs relying solely on people to take care of it themselves... plus, ya know, it literally saves kids lives.

so while everyone generally wants people to get onboard the self-sufficiency train dream, that's not realistic in the short-term so the rest of us will deal with reality for awhile and advocate on behalf of a program that helps kids and the nation's bottom line.
Spending government money (other peoples money) isn't saving money. If you can't afford to support children, then don't have them. I would love to be driving a Ferrari, just waiting for the government to force Phreak to pay for it.

This is a start to wean people off the government gravy train. When people are buying beer and smokes, then crying about not getting government money to pay for their kids, coats, school supplies or healthcare; I don't feel it's my fault the kids are not getting what they need.

Need more personal responsibility in the US, I hope we are on the road to getting it.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 02:06 PM   #6
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Ass, gas, or cash. Nobody rides for free!
Maybe if the Mom is hot she could hold a party to earn enough for her child's medical bills. Maybe Harvey Weistein will attend and foot the whole bill.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 02:49 PM   #7
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Helps the nation’s bottom line?

Ha!

You mean it’s the cheapest way to pick my pockets.


I’m not advocating for letting children die in the streets, but if they have parents those parents should have to pay the money back.

Ass, gas, or cash. Nobody rides for free!
This is an interesting argument. Advocating for the helpless child is a position the right loves to take up prior to birth in which the government must step in and dictate that care must be provided to the child in support of its life.

Yet following birth, the government must not provide any resources to ensure that helpless child receives care when needed should the parents be unable to or unwilling to procure the insurance capable of paying for those treatments.

Wouldn't the more logical position be that if you demand compassion for the helpless, you find ways to ensure it?
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Unread 2018-01-18, 02:57 PM   #8
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It's these kids fault their parents don't have the means (for whatever reason) to support their health needs. Let them die. Am I doing it right, DIY and jwd?
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Unread 2018-01-18, 02:59 PM   #9
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It's these kids fault their parents don't have the means (for whatever reason) to support their health needs. Let them die. Am I doing it right, DIY and jwd?


Dave youíre a debt free millionaire.


Why donít you toss them a couple of hundred K?

I mean....these kids are hurting!
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Unread 2018-01-18, 03:02 PM   #10
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I had sick kids too.


I got a job, got health insurance, and then didnít have to worry about it.


Less hand outs, please.
Hmmm well my father was laid off in 2003 from Sprint and my mother worked for Olathe school district who only offered admin and teachers benefits. I think after 10+ years they finally offered a pretty poor plan to full time paras.

I went without insurance for years and suffered for it. I never got to have braces. I have a nice smile, but my teeth are still kind of crooked and my bite is not great. When I was 17, the state of Kansas had an insurance plan for low income families to provide for their children. I was able to use this and right away had my wisdom teeth pulled out that was causing my crookedness and was able to get a few other things addressed that were neglected for years. I was able to apply for a 1 year extension at the age of 18, when I had two major lung surgeries that would have put me $50k+ in debt. I would have been financially ruined. 18 years old having to claim medical bankruptcy while trying to put yourself through college.

I'm thankful I had those options because I can't control my parent's lives and the decisions they made or lack of. My dad was legitimately searching day in and out for jobs but was "overqualified" and then the entire economy started tanking 4 years later. I get it you can't sympathize with those kinds of hardships because you've been fortunate enough to have a stable career. My dad did too for 30 years. But not everyone gets to step in those same shoes and kids shouldn't have to suffer for it.

It's different when you're a grown adult. I didn't have insurance from 19 - 23 and that was 100% on me. But I worked my way up in my career and landed a good position with good pay and benefits. But when you're 18 that is not in your control whatsoever. You're such a fucking dick. "Fuck everyone else cause my kids are okay".
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Unread 2018-01-18, 03:02 PM   #11
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Dave youíre a debt free millionaire.


Why donít you toss them a couple of hundred K?

I mean....these kids are hurting!
Why do that when we can pool a nation's resources together and have the net impact be fractions of a percentage from each of our tax contribution to ensure this is funded?

Maybe that's too much...we should invest more in military I recon.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 03:04 PM   #12
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Why do that when we can pool a nation's resources together and have the net impact be fractions of a percentage from each of our tax contribution to ensure this is funded?

Maybe that's too much...we should invest more in military I recon.


Iíll answer your posts when I have a minute to post a well though out response, or at least my version of one.

I only have a few seconds here and there to troll dave right now 😉
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Unread 2018-01-18, 03:43 PM   #13
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You're such a fucking dick. "Fuck everyone else cause my kids are okay".
That's not what people are saying. Most of us see the system as being abused and other people are not putting their own children as a priority. Expecting others, the government to pay for things.

I doubt many people on here grew up with less than I did and my parents were able to scrape together and prioritize money for the medical care for my brothers and I.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 03:44 PM   #14
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Why do that when we can pool a nation's resources together and have the net impact be fractions of a percentage from each of our tax contribution to ensure this is funded?
I would like the government to fund some of my financial responsibilities also.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 03:53 PM   #15
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I would like the government to fund some of my financial responsibilities also.
You put your kids through public school, yes?
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Unread 2018-01-18, 04:59 PM   #16
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You put your kids through public school, yes?
Everyone has the opportunity to public school on other peoples money. Mine only went through public MS and HS though.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 05:14 PM   #17
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Everyone has the opportunity to public school on other peoples money. Mine only went through public MS and HS though.
Everyone that HAS kids. What about all those folks that choose not to have kids?

Sounds like you just made a justification for socialism because you took advantage of it and if everyone can have access to it, why not?
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Unread 2018-01-18, 05:21 PM   #18
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did you really just compare giving kids health insurance to you wanting to own a Ferrari?

That comment alone shows what's wrong with this country. Fucking Greed
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Unread 2018-01-18, 05:44 PM   #19
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did you really just compare giving kids health insurance to you wanting to own a Ferrari?

That comment alone shows what's wrong with this country. Fucking Greed

Damn skippy.


Iíve done right by people in need, and gladly so. I have a high school senior and her mom currently living in my home and theyíve been there since last May. Sheís a soon to be college scholarship athlete, and her mom doesnít make enough to keep a roof over their heads and also keep the daughter in all of the volleyball activities, so they ended up with us.

I have four girls that call me dad that arenít my blood daughters. Iíve taken them in, been a big part of their lives and raised them.

Iíve put my money where my mouth is.

I donít need the government picking my pocket to encourage me to do the right thing.

And Iím going to be buying a newer Viper soon, and I have no problem saying it isnít my responsibility to fund every liberal social program so that others donít have to take responsibility for their own families.

The programs need to be in place to an extent, but sure donít need to grow.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 05:44 PM   #20
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Everyone that HAS kids. What about all those folks that choose not to have kids?

Sounds like you just made a justification for socialism because you took advantage of it and if everyone can have access to it, why not?
Not an equal comparison unless health care was free to everyone. You understand that but can't justify a reason for having the government pick peoples pockets to provide medical care to some people.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 05:48 PM   #21
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Iíve done right by people in need, and gladly so.
That's the difference between conservative and liberalism. Conservatives take care of people themselves without the big hand of government, libs use the big hand of government to pick the pockets of others to take care of others and themselves.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 05:51 PM   #22
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Not an equal comparison unless health care was free to everyone. You understand that but can't justify a reason for having the government pick peoples pockets to provide medical care to some people.
It's as equal as comparing healthcare for all to public schools. Every. single. person. can take advantage of free healthcare. If not for preventative, at least when needed for health conditions, incidents or accidents.

Schools you have to actually have children to take advantage of it. Same playing field with regards to access.

Regarding picking people's pockets. Am I to understand that CHIP, if funded, would be adding additional taxes to our current effective tax rate?

No?

In that case, it's not picking my pockets, it's allocating funds towards one priority over another. Your pockets are already picked, so it's only a matter of where that money goes. If you believe that funding a 20+ billion dollar wall is a worthwhile investment in the American people, yet funding 15 billion a year for insurance to help children in need isn't?

Well...That's pretty fucking sick.

15 billion a year is NOTHING in relation to overall spending. The fact that people take issue with this over all the other prioritization of funds like 600 billion on military spending is just insane.

Almost 9 million children are benefiting from this prioritization. I can say with absolute confidence we could cut 15 billion from the Military budget and 9 million people would not be negatively impacted.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 06:22 PM   #23
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It's as equal as comparing healthcare for all to public schools. Every. single. person. can take advantage of free healthcare. If not for preventative, at least when needed for health conditions, incidents or accidents. shouldn't be free healthcare for all, but that's another thread.

Schools you have to actually have children to take advantage of it. Same playing field with regards to access.

Regarding picking people's pockets. Am I to understand that CHIP, if funded, would be adding additional taxes to our current effective tax rate? Taxes could be lowered so yes, it is picking pockets.

No?

In that case, it's not picking my pockets, it's allocating funds towards one priority over another. Your pockets are already picked, so it's only a matter of where that money goes. If you believe that funding a 20+ billion dollar wall is a worthwhile investment in the American people, yet funding 15 billion a year for insurance to help children in need isn't? 20B a one time charge verses 15B each year is different. I'll bet if we build that wall then fewer children will need CHIP.

Well...That's pretty fucking sick.

15 billion a year is NOTHING in relation to overall spending. The remove that spending if it's nothing. The fact that people take issue with this over all the other prioritization of funds like 600 billion on military spending is just insane. The constitution states that we should provide a military, it does not say that we should provide healthcare.

Almost 9 million children are benefiting from this prioritization. I can say with absolute confidence we could cut 15 billion from the Military budget and 9 million people would not be negatively impacted.
If you want your priorities, make sure you vote democrat next election and hope that most people do also.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 07:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by jwdb1fish View Post
Damn skippy.


Iíve done right by people in need, and gladly so. I have a high school senior and her mom currently living in my home and theyíve been there since last May. Sheís a soon to be college scholarship athlete, and her mom doesnít make enough to keep a roof over their heads and also keep the daughter in all of the volleyball activities, so they ended up with us.

I have four girls that call me dad that arenít my blood daughters. Iíve taken them in, been a big part of their lives and raised them.

Iíve put my money where my mouth is.

I donít need the government picking my pocket to encourage me to do the right thing.

And Iím going to be buying a newer Viper soon, and I have no problem saying it isnít my responsibility to fund every liberal social program so that others donít have to take responsibility for their own families.

The programs need to be in place to an extent, but sure donít need to grow.
You tipped your troll hand too early with saying you'd buy a FCA product.
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Unread 2018-01-18, 07:54 PM   #25
Keboh
 
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Originally Posted by DIYAutoRepair View Post
Not an equal comparison unless health care was free to everyone. You understand that but can't justify a reason for having the government pick peoples pockets to provide medical care to some people.
Health care isn't free whether you pay a ton out of pocket for private insurance or single payer. One comes out of your paycheck, one comes out of your paycheck.

If only we could he so lucky to have universal health care, people in general would be healthier, fewer people in forever debt, filing bankruptcy, delinquent bills, etc. It's probably save us money, even after paying for all those freeloaders...

But who cares about being cost effective when it's more important to PUNISH those less well off for being poor.
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Last edited by Keboh; 2018-01-18 at 08:01 PM..
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