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Unread 2017-11-07, 05:00 PM   #101
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so you are cheering because we are just adding less debt, but still adding debt non the less. Cheers guys, it's only 1.5T estimated over 10 years.
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Unread 2017-11-07, 05:05 PM   #102
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so you are cheering because we are just adding less debt, but still adding debt non the less. Cheers guys, it's only 1.5T estimated over 10 years.
it's funny because that's how Obama's started out too.
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Unread 2017-11-07, 05:06 PM   #103
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fixed for you

only i'm not too sure it is trump trying to do it. i think his bumbling and blind headstrong approaches have revealed much of our governments filthy underbelly, almost as much as they have revealed about his own.

the only thing i agree with the "cheeto" on is turning Pyongyang into a glass encrusted crater and showing lil kim who the mac daddy really is here, seriously, that little country has gone far enough with it's rhetoric, it's blatant disregard for multiple requests to stop, even from their primary supporter china ( at least publicly) sides it's not like the majority of residents can actually buy goods or services from pyongyang.
so you support murdering millions of innocent people simply for the fact that they were unlucky enough to be born in the wrong place? sweet diplomacy, brah.
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Unread 2017-11-07, 05:13 PM   #104
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Trump is just trying to fix 30 years of liberal mess and keep us out of banana republic status. I hope he has the strength to continue.
do you even know what a banana republic is or are you just trying to sound smart? the US could never be a banana republic, but if you really wanted to stretch your imagination, Trump is guiding us towards being a banana republic, if anything.

in other words, you're a moron.
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Unread 2017-11-07, 06:34 PM   #105
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His plan is adding 1.5T to the debt over 10 years.

Where were you when Obama added 10T over 8 years? That's right, you were cheering his policies and plans.
A) I wasn't.

b) I get the 1.5T. house Republicans are trying to SIGNIFICANTLY increase that... also, i just said it's a somewhat reasonable tax bill as of right now.

I just don't even...
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Unread 2017-11-07, 07:44 PM   #106
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Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...4a0_story.html

We REALLY need to abandon this stupid fucking idea that trickle-down works. GOP leaders taking a somewhat reasonable bill and deciding "you know what this bill is missing? More national debt. Rich people definitely are getting the short straw, so we should give them a break and pile that onto our already HUGE debt."
The Paradise Papers have shown us what the rich do with their extra money. We'll never see a dime of it.
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Unread 2017-11-07, 10:33 PM   #107
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The Paradise Papers have shown us what the rich do with their extra money. We'll never see a dime of it.
You shouldnt see any of it. Its their money not yours.

Thats the whole democrate platform take from those who have and give to those that dont. Sounds a lot like socialism to me.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 08:26 AM   #108
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It's actually called democracy. Society in general. The haves help supplement the have nots. Maybe you'd prefer a third world country?
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Unread 2017-11-08, 09:20 AM   #109
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^^^ No, it's called Socialism. It's thriving very well in Russia, maybe you should visit some time and see what it's like over there. It eventually evolves into a very corrupt government since they are the ones in charge of redistribution of wealth.

Those who don't have who continue to receive money from those that have will continue to not work or advance because they have just enough. Those that have will either leave or quit continuing to produce enough to be taxed at punitive rates.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 09:27 AM   #110
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^^^ No, it's called Socialism. It's thriving very well in Russia, maybe you should visit some time and see what it's like over there. It eventually evolves into a very corrupt government since they are the ones in charge of redistribution of wealth.

Those who don't have who continue to receive money from those that have will continue to not work or advance because they have just enough. Those that have will either leave or quit continuing to produce enough to be taxed at punitive rates.
Socialism to some limited degree, like it is here in the US, is present in every single first world country on this planet.

Find me one where it's not.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 09:50 AM   #111
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We are getting too much of it here. Once we get to your level of comfort with Socialism it will be to far gone to stop turning into full Socialism like Russia.

Like I mentioned, plan a trip and see what your paradise of Socialism is like in Russia, or at least find a local Russian community and see why they are here and what life there is like.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 09:56 AM   #112
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We are getting too much of it here. Once we get to your level of comfort with Socialism it will be to far gone to stop turning into full Socialism like Russia.

Like I mentioned, plan a trip and see what your paradise of Socialism is like in Russia, or at least find a local Russian community and see why they are here and what life there is like.
What is my level of comfort with socialism David? What socialist paradise do you presume to understand I desire?
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Unread 2017-11-08, 10:13 AM   #113
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^^ That's what I am asking.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 10:51 AM   #114
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What is my level of comfort with socialism David? What socialist paradise do you presume to understand I desire?
asking the question presupposes that he understands 'what is socialism, really?' like the rest of the world. he doesn't appear to because Russia isn't really socialist by any meaningful understanding of the term.

Russia is an oligarchy with a capitalist base. this should be readily apparent to anyone that reads the news when ~10% of news articles for the past couple years have included the phrase "Russian oligarch"...

the Russian gov't doesn't own the means of production, they did - 25 years ago - but it has since been sold off to the oligarchs. if the Russian gov't magically kicked out their authoritarian, the means of production would remain in the same non-gov't hands... hence not socialism.

you may or may not desire a socialist paradise but asking someone who doesn't appear to understand what the term means how comfortable you are with it or how much you desire it doesn't make much sense given that his definition of what a socialist gov't actually is doesn't really line up with yours or anyone else's.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 11:07 AM   #115
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asking the question presupposes that he understands 'what is socialism, really?' like the rest of the world. he doesn't appear to because Russia isn't really socialist by any meaningful understanding of the term.

Russia is an oligarchy with a capitalist base. this should be readily apparent to anyone that reads the news when ~10% of news articles for the past couple years have included the phrase "Russian oligarch"...

the Russian gov't doesn't own the means of production, they did - 25 years ago - but it has since been sold off to the oligarchs. if the Russian gov't magically kicked out their authoritarian, the means of production would remain in the same non-gov't hands... hence not socialism.

you may or may not desire a socialist paradise but asking someone who doesn't appear to understand what the term means how comfortable you are with it or how much you desire it doesn't make much sense given that his definition of what a socialist gov't actually is doesn't really line up with yours or anyone else's.
Socialism /ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/ - Noun - Anything in which the democratic party supports and/or that which the GOP opposes, regardless of who owns production, how it is funded, or who benefits from it.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 11:52 AM   #116
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i made this on fred in like 2 minutes. you guys can all feel free to try out looking at various data too. it speaks for itself most of the time.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 12:01 PM   #117
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How the New GOP Tax Proposal Compares to Reagan's
Though the just-released Tax Cuts and Jobs Act might read like a blast from the past, there are certain key differences we can't overlook.

Maurie Backman

If you've been reading up on Republicans lawmakers' just-released tax bill, and if you were around to follow the news back in 1986, then you may be experiencing a sense of deja vu. That's because the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act evokes the 1986 tax reform spearheaded by former President Reagan, prompting many comparisons between the two.

Yet while the proposals share certain characteristics, they're two very different beasts.

Simplification and tax relief -- and so much more

Complexities in the tax code have historically led to errors and fraud, so the brand-new Tax Cuts and Jobs Act seeks to simplify matters, as did the Tax Reform Act of 1986. But whereas Reagan's plan effectively reduced the number of individual income tax brackets from a whopping 14 down to just two, the GOP's plan is less extreme in this regard. We no longer have 14 distinct tax brackets at play, but rather just seven, and the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act narrows them down to four, not two.

Still, the intent is the same: Streamline the system and make it less confusing for American taxpayers by eliminating not only brackets, but some of the countless deductions that have long been said to favor the wealthy (even though some deductions, at present, phase out at higher income levels).

And let's not gloss over another key aspect of both plans: tax relief. Reagan's plan reduced the top marginal individual tax rate from 50% to 28%. The new reform plan retains the current top rate of 39.6% but greatly increases the minimum income to which it applies. Reagan's plan also lifted the burden on low-income households by increasing the standard deduction and expanding the personal exemption. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, meanwhile, seeks to nearly double the standard deduction, which the overwhelming majority of households claim. At the same time, however, it looks to eliminate the personal exemption, which could put larger households back at square one.

While simplification and tax relief lie at the core of both plans, there's one key difference we can't overlook: Whereas Reagan's plan seemed to favor the average American, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act comes off as more friendly to corporations and the well-to-do. Reagan's plan sought to eliminate corporate loopholes and make the rich pay their share (case in point: Reagan actually raised capital gains taxes). Under the new GOP plan, corporations would enjoy much lower tax rates, and the estate tax -- which Republicans call the "death tax" and which Democrats see as a way to prevent rich families from establishing aristocracy-like dynasties -- would be repealed.

Will this tax plan gain traction?


The success of Reagan's tax plan (even if elements thereof eventually came to be repealed by future administrations) was rooted not just in its content, but in its approval. Reagan peddled his proposal until it gained clear bipartisan support. The GOP's new plan, meanwhile, is nowhere close to having bipartisan buy-in, and President Trump has made it clear that he wants the bill passed by year's end. Whether that's realistic or not is beside the point. The fact that Congress is expected to rush though such a heated, intensive process underscores the crucial difference between 1986 and today -- that the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is still very much a one-sided proposal that lends itself to broad skepticism.

There are certain things everyone can agree on today, as they did back in 1986 -- namely, that our tax system is far too complex, it favors certain economic groups, and it needs a serious overhaul. But whether the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act can ultimately resolve those issues is yet to be determined.
Source: https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017...o-reagans.aspx

Sounds like even Reagan was too socialist for the modern GOP. Not only is the current plan more lenient to the well-off than Reagan's was, but there is a portion of the GOP saying that it needs to go even further to benefit the most well-off before they will consider voting for it.

I wonder who they're voting to help: themselves and those lobbying them, or the American people? Hmm...

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Unread 2017-11-08, 12:25 PM   #118
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Source: https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017...o-reagans.aspx

Sounds like even Reagan was too socialist for the modern GOP. Not only is the current plan more lenient to the well-off than Reagan's was, but there is a portion of the GOP saying that it needs to go even further to benefit the most well-off before they will consider voting for it.

I wonder who they're voting to help: themselves and those lobbying them, or the American people? Hmm...
But isn't that what every politician does? Vote for their own vested interest?
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Unread 2017-11-08, 12:30 PM   #119
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But isn't that what every politician does? Vote for their own vested interest?
Yes. And I agree that it's a big issue on both sides of the isle. In the topic at hand though, the GOP is doing it to a rather extreme degree.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 01:37 PM   #120
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What "scale" is being used to determine who's views are any "worse" than the other, politically?
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Unread 2017-11-08, 01:57 PM   #121
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What "scale" is being used to determine who's views are any "worse" than the other, politically?
It's called thee "Keboh scale", which is heavily weighted to the left.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 02:39 PM   #122
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The difference is that the far right are well represented by far right members of congress. The far left ("anti fa" etc) is pretty much just whiny people whose views aren't reflected much at all by congressional delegates.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 03:17 PM   #123
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What "scale" is being used to determine who's views are any "worse" than the other, politically?
I'm not comparing them, that's the point. I am simply stating that in this specific example, the GOP is way out of line for what is best for the country, in favor of what's best for their investors. There are plenty of examples of the Dems doing just that in other cases, but because of the topic of this specific thread, I am looking only at the given context. Where did you read in my post that I was making a comparison?

It's not always a goddamn contest, guys.
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Unread 2017-11-08, 03:51 PM   #124
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It's not always a goddamn contest, guys.
Sure it is, remember the quote, "We are going to win so much we will be tired of winning."
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Unread 2017-11-08, 04:32 PM   #125
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That's the problem, it's not a game, this is real life.
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