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Unread 2017-11-02, 04:23 PM   #76
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one thing that's interesting as I read more about this plan is that in order to hit their "only add $1.5T to the deficit over 10 years" target, they capped many of the things that are actually getting a tax cut to middle class families at 5 years but the rates and deductions that go to businesses and high earners are mostly permanent...

its interesting to read as these analyses are coming in.
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Unread 2017-11-02, 04:40 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Karlen View Post
$1.51 Trillion over 10 years to the deficit

Fiscal responsibility

Pick one.
That's the biggest thing to me, is that it's borrowing money to cut taxes. It's not a balanced tax reform, it's using debt for a tax cut. If it were more balanced I think it would be pretty legit.

Keep the estate tax, don't slash corporate tax rates or pass through rates so much and I bet it would cut that down SIGNIFICANTLY.
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Unread 2017-11-02, 10:23 PM   #78
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^^ While some of that is true, most of the federal money goes to liberal states to cover shortfalls in their education budgets, the teacher layoffs that you mentioned.

There is a lot of waste in school budgets but that is a whole other topic.

Again, the amount of money does not equate to a better education.
lol, teachers are grossly underpaid, their turnover is atrocious, and yet you think we waste too much money on education? lmao. show me the waste, please.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 04:11 AM   #79
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lol, teachers are grossly underpaid, their turnover is atrocious, and yet you think we waste too much money on education? lmao. show me the waste, please.
For starters, you could simply walk to the nearest mirror.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 05:56 AM   #80
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DIY in here getting destroyed posting nothing but fake, easily disproven conservative talking points.

I feel like Trump will try to ram anything through Congress at this point just to try and get a win after the horrible failures the healthcare bills were and the Russian investigation is heating up. He's feeling the fire.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 06:50 AM   #81
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DIY in here getting destroyed posting nothing but fake, easily disproven conservative talking points.

I feel like Trump will try to ram anything through Congress at this point just to try and get a win after the horrible failures the healthcare bills were and the Russian investigation is heating up. He's feeling the fire.
LOL @ the Russian Investigation.

Nothing has come remotely close to The Donald.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 07:19 AM   #82
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DIY in here getting destroyed posting nothing but fake, easily disproven conservative talking points.
.
Nope, just posting the truth for all those who have drunk the liberal Kool-Aid. Trump is just trying to fix 30 years of liberal mess and keep us out of banana republic status. I hope he has the strength to continue.

It's fun to see the light of day shown on the mess that this country is in. Hopefully people will see the full extent of corruption that has been going on by the political elite.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 09:28 AM   #83
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LOL @ the Russian Investigation.
Nothing has come remotely close to The Donald.
hasn't come remotely close?
his closest advisor (Kushner), one of his sons, his campaign manager, the co-chair of his national campaign...
the only one potentially closer is Melania and she clearly distanced herself from him for awhile but is so far not implicated in anything other than sounding like a Soviet Bloc Bond villain.

the only way this could get closer to him is if specific allegations against him had been made public already.
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Nope, just posting the truth for all those who have drunk the liberal Kool-Aid. Trump is just trying to fix 30 years of liberal mess and keep us out of banana republic status. I hope he has the strength to continue.

It's fun to see the light of day shown on the mess that this country is in. Hopefully people will see the full extent of corruption that has been going on by the political elite.
it is genuinely creepy to hear you talk and know that someone who seemed even mildly rational and normal can have these thoughts.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 12:14 PM   #84
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it is genuinely creepy to hear you talk and know that someone who seemed even mildly rational and normal can have these thoughts.
I have always wondered the same thing, why can such normal, intelligent and rational people have such liberal ideas.



I understand how it happens though but that's another topic.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 12:40 PM   #85
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hasn't come remotely close?
his closest advisor (Kushner), one of his sons, his campaign manager, the co-chair of his national campaign...
the only one potentially closer is Melania and she clearly distanced herself from him for awhile but is so far not implicated in anything other than sounding like a Soviet Bloc Bond villain.

the only way this could get closer to him is if specific allegations against him had been made public already.
I heard there is evidence coming to light that Hope Hicks was aware of the Russia meetings as well.

She did just lawyer up and is about to be interviewed by Mueller.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 01:07 PM   #86
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I heard there is evidence coming to light that Hope Hicks was aware of the Russia meetings as well.

She did just lawyer up and is about to be interviewed by Mueller.
Man, I'd love me some Hope Hicks.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 01:18 PM   #87
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I have always wondered the same thing, why can such normal, intelligent and rational people have such liberal ideas.
your ideas I actually get. its this idolatry that's creeping me out. you "hope he has the strength to continue"?

ugh.
this isn't North Korea or the USSR... you're buying into a cult of personality despite the fact that the focus of that cult is basically a con man who also happens to be a bit of a bubbling moron.

I can promise you I never even thought about how 'strong' Obama or Clinton were much less said weird shit like that to other people. the least creepy way I can even try to turn that, in the most generous interpretation I can imagine, is that you mean to say something akin to "I hope he continues to have the courage of his convictions..." disregarding the fact that he's never had any convictions at all that weren't about self-promotion. and even that is like a love-sick teenage girl stereotype

I understand how someone can have conservative ideas... they're self-indulgent and myopic imo but I understand how rational people can get there... its this willingness to completely divorce yourself from reality and buy into a blatantly obvious con that doesn't have any upside for you that perplexes me.

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I understand how it happens though but that's another topic.
reading and education. that's how it generally happens. also having empathy and/or having gone through a situation where you weren't living the American Dream... that works too.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 01:39 PM   #88
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reading and education. that's how it generally happens. also having empathy and/or having gone through a situation where you weren't living the American Dream... that works too.
Yep. These are the reasons I lean left. Ethnographic studies on different income levels and cultures in the US (and abroad) and reading about economic models. I'm also a compassionate person.

I get there is rationale and logic that support more conservative economic ideology and I'm not saying that it's wrong to believe that. I think that there is some level of correctness on both sides of the isle. I personally agree with the more progressive ideals and thought process.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 07:51 PM   #89
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Nope, just posting the truth for all those who have drunk the liberal Kool-Aid. Trump is just trying to fix 30 years of liberal mess and keep us out of banana republic status. I hope he has the strength to continue.

It's fun to see the light of day shown on the mess that this country is in. Hopefully people will see the full extent of corruption that has been going on by the political elite.
You're in a cult so the Kool-Aid drinking applies to Trumpers more than anyone at this point. The fact that you keep coming in here and spouting off like you're telling truths when phreak has been butt raping you on every point you've made just points to your vast delusion. It's frankly frightening that we have an entire segment of the population that can be shown reason and facts and still shout about how right they are and those people got Trump elected. Just take a look at r/The_Donald. It's a sea of mental illness. You'd fit right in.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 07:59 PM   #90
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LOL @ the Russian Investigation.

Nothing has come remotely close to The Donald.
People around him are falling like dominoes. Now we know Sessions lied under oath about meeting with Russians. How much Donald actually knew is completely up in the air for sure though. But his campaign was dirty as hell and could illegitimize his presidency and that would be a huge blow to his ego.
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Unread 2017-11-03, 09:01 PM   #91
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People around him are falling like dominoes. Now we know Sessions lied under oath about meeting with Russians. How much Donald actually knew is completely up in the air for sure though. But his campaign was dirty as hell and could illegitimize his presidency and that would be a huge blow to his ego.
I'm still waiting for the impeachment to happen...
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Unread 2017-11-04, 08:51 AM   #92
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You're in a cult so the Kool-Aid drinking applies to Trumpers more than anyone at this point. The fact that you keep coming in here and spouting off like you're telling truths when phreak has been butt raping you on every point you've made just points to your vast delusion. It's frankly frightening that we have an entire segment of the population that can be shown reason and facts and still shout about how right they are and those people got Trump elected. Just take a look at r/The_Donald. It's a sea of mental illness. You'd fit right in.
It's a bit of a low blow to say he and others are mentally ill for supporting Donald, isn't it?
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Unread 2017-11-04, 09:29 AM   #93
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It's a bit of a low blow to say he and others are mentally ill for supporting Donald, isn't it?
Libs don't care. They are the moral authority because they pander to minorities.
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Unread 2017-11-04, 09:56 AM   #94
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Libs don't care. They are the moral authority because they pander to minorities.
I don't know if "moral authority" would be the correct way to describe liberals. (Not saying anyone is right our wrong)
I think majority authority fits better as far as right or wrong. Most liberals tend to be aetheist.
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Unread 2017-11-04, 08:49 PM   #95
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here again, facts are stubborn as fuck...
https://www.cbpp.org/research/federa...outside-social

unless you believe that we need to throw old people out on their ass, we don't really seem to have much of a spending problem.
wasn't there a politician, paid for by the lobbyists, who got a bill passed that prevented medicaid from negotiating prices for products and services?

i believe the sales pitch was, "we want them to get the best medical care"
it instead became a slush fund for medical sectors.
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Unread 2017-11-04, 09:01 PM   #96
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Nope, just posting the truth for all those who have drunk the government Kool-Aid. Trump is just trying to fix 30 years of government mess and keep us out of banana republic status. I hope he has the strength to continue.

It's fun to see the light of day shown on the mess that this country is in. Hopefully people will see the full extent of corruption that has been going on by the political elite.

fixed for you

only i'm not too sure it is trump trying to do it. i think his bumbling and blind headstrong approaches have revealed much of our governments filthy underbelly, almost as much as they have revealed about his own.

the only thing i agree with the "cheeto" on is turning Pyongyang into a glass encrusted crater and showing lil kim who the mac daddy really is here, seriously, that little country has gone far enough with it's rhetoric, it's blatant disregard for multiple requests to stop, even from their primary supporter china ( at least publicly) sides it's not like the majority of residents can actually buy goods or services from pyongyang.
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Unread 2017-11-05, 08:02 AM   #97
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It's a bit of a low blow to say he and others are mentally ill for supporting Donald, isn't it?
Supporting Trump and blindly believing everything he says, spinning everything in his favor in light of logic and facts are two completely different things. It's seriously become a cult and Trump is the leader.
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Unread 2017-11-05, 09:50 AM   #98
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Supporting Trump and blindly believing everything he says, spinning everything in his favor in light of logic and facts are two completely different things. It's seriously become a cult and Trump is the leader.
Not so much different than the Obama and Hillary Robbim Clinton cult.
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Unread 2017-11-07, 03:14 PM   #99
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Conservatives demand changes to House GOP tax bill

By Mike DeBonis November 7 at 1:56 PM

House Republicans are facing new pressure from conservatives to make changes to their sweeping tax plan, days before Senate GOP leaders are slated to release a bill that would need support from party moderates to pass.
The president of the Club for Growth, an influential group promoting tax cuts, issued a statement Tuesday saying parts of the House bill “fails the pro-growth test,” while social conservative groups pushed lawmakers to restore a tax credit for families who adopt children.

“All in all, this bill must be changed if Republicans intend to keep their promise of real pro-growth, job-creating tax cuts,” Club for Growth’s president, David McIntosh, said, advocating for changes that would further reduce the tax bills owed by the wealthy.

The group is calling on lawmakers to cut taxes on income over $1 million, which the House bill as currently written would leave unchanged at 39.6 percent. The group also wants the bill’s authors to make it easier for businesses to claim a lower 25 percent income tax rate, as well as to speed up their planned repeal of the estate tax, in a bid to promote economic growth.

Meanwhile, groups including the National Right to Life Committee, Focus on the Family and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops mobilized to restore an existing tax credit that’s worth up to $13,570 for families who adopt children.

A petition circulated Tuesday to members of March for Life, a leading antiabortion group, said that the loss of the adoption tax credit would “adversely affect families seeking to adopt.”

“Adoption is a critically important pro-life effort, and the adoption tax credit is a significant government policy to encourage and enable it,” the petition said.

The push from the right adds new complications for House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Kevin Brady (R-Tex.), the House’s top tax writer and the author of the GOP tax bill released last week, as he moves the legislation toward a planned floor vote next week.

The proposed changes would further decrease government revenue and add to the federal deficit. Brady’s bill is already close to proposing $1.5 trillion in new deficit spending, a limit GOP tax legislation can’t go past if Republicans are to use the special process they need to get the bill through the Senate over Democratic opposition.

The nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation estimated this year that the adoption tax credit would cost $2.2 billion between 2016 and 2020. The changes advocated by the Club for Growth could cost much more — tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars.

To accommodate the requests, Brady would have to find new tax revenue elsewhere, possibly by shrinking the size of provisions in the bill aimed at benefiting middle- and working-class households.

In a morning interview with conservative talk show host Hugh Hewitt, Brady said that changes to help adoptive families are under discussion but also argued that the GOP bill as written offers broad benefits to adoptive families.

“We know how important this is, but it doesn’t help a lot of families,” said Brady, the father of two adopted sons. “Do we want to stick with the old credit, which leaves fewer and fewer people behind, and helps one time in your life, or do we go with the tax cuts that provide about $2,000 a year, and the new family credit that helps you with your child every year of their life?”

Brady said he was still considering another conservative demand — repealing the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate to purchase insurance. That move, supported by President Trump, would please the healthcare law’s opponents and could generate hundreds of billions of dollars to offset cuts elsewhere. But it would create a major new political hurdle for the bill, and Brady has thus far declined to include it in bill.

Brady said Tuesday that the mandate’s repeal is an “area that we are looking at carefully.”

“We’re listening to our members here in the House about how they’d react to that,” he said. “And so I’ve been asked to consider it. We are doing exactly that.”

Senate Republicans say they expect to introduce their tax bill on Thursday, as Republicans in both chambers push to pass legislation by Thanksgiving with the eventual goal of sending a unified bill to Trump’s desk by year’s end.

Undermining the Affordable Care Act — often referred to as “Obamacare” — through a tax overhaul would probably draw the same type of opposition that several earlier repeal efforts did earlier this year.

Even without attempting to repeal the Affordable Care Act, Senate Republican leaders face a challenge in getting legislation through their chamber, as, to pass, a bill would require support from nearly all 52 GOP senators. That means finding a measure that wins over moderates, does enough for hard-line conservatives and — barring any Democratic support — loses support from no more than three Republicans senators in the process.

Brady on Monday unveiled fresh changes to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, the $1.5 trillion tax cut that represents the cornerstone of the Republican economic agenda. Those changes preserved a key tax break for child care and addressed various business concerns. But it left other controversial parts of the plan intact — such as a proposal to scale back the long-standing mortgage interest deduction.

Brady told Hewitt on Tuesday that he was not inclined to change the mortgage interest provision — which would cap the amount of interest a taxpayer could deduct for a primary residence and eliminate it entirely for a second home — and played down the potential economic impact of the change. Trade associations representing home builders and real estate agents are warning that the provision could cause home prices to fall and dampen a major driver of the American economy.

The GOP tax bill, Brady said, would stimulate the economy generally, including the real estate sector: “You get home values up, you get more sales, you get better prices when the economy is stronger,” he said. “This tax plan is all about getting growth going. That is good for home builders. It’s good for homeowners like you and me.”

Meanwhile, the Ways and Means Committee continued a marathon session to debate the bill Tuesday, considering a series of Democratic amendments meant to highlight what they see as shortcomings of the bill. The “markup” is expected to last till Thursday, setting up a planned floor vote in the House next week.

An amendment offered by Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) would roll back the Republican plan after two years if promised economic growth does not materialize and the federal budget deficit continues to expand. The GOP’s promises of a deficit-neutral tax plan, he said, are based on “unicorn dust and magic beans.”

“There’s no excuse for us going down that path of escalating debt,” Blumenauer said. “All I am suggesting is that we put in a fail-safe mechanism.”

But Republicans blasted the amendment as a poison pill that would keep middle-class American families from gaining tax relief under the bill.

“Most Americans are having a tough times making ends meet, and they are sick and tired of hearing people talk about a deficit, when most of the people sitting here talking about the deficit have been sitting here for 20 years and have allowed the deficit to occur and have done nothing about it,” Rep. James B. Renacci (R-Ohio) said.

According to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, the GOP bill is expected to add nearly $1.5 trillion to the federal deficit over the course of a decade. An independent analysis from the conservative-leaning Tax Foundation released Friday found that the bill would create jobs and generate economic growth but would still add $989 million to the deficit.

But Renacci insisted the fiscal effects of the tax cut should be set aside: “It's not the revenue side, it's the spending side,” he said. “The driver of our debt is our spending.”
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...4a0_story.html

We REALLY need to abandon this stupid fucking idea that trickle-down works. GOP leaders taking a somewhat reasonable bill and deciding "you know what this bill is missing? More national debt. Rich people definitely are getting the short straw, so we should give them a break and pile that onto our already HUGE debt."
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Unread 2017-11-07, 04:43 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Keboh View Post
pile that onto our already HUGE debt."
His plan is adding 1.5T to the debt over 10 years.

Where were you when Obama added 10T over 8 years? That's right, you were cheering his policies and plans.
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