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Unread 2014-12-28, 02:09 AM   #1
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Default (re)Building a 468 - need cam advice

The engine was originally build and used as a track car. Since KCIR closed the car only really gets used as a street fighter.

As a result I would like to soften it up; to make it a little more streetable. I also don't want to spend a ton of money... so I'm thinking about using as much from the original set up as I can, and changing it to a hydraulic flat tappet set-up.


Original set up:

468 BBC.
4-speed.
3.73s.
About 11.5:1 compression (LS6 +.060 pistons).
Iron A-code passenger heads that have been hogged out and polished.
SCAT crank and rods.
Weiand aluminum intake.
850cfm Holley.
TRW 1.7 roller tip rockers with girdles.
Solid roller cam (that was honestly way too big.)


The engine finally ate the cam and a lifter.



The bottom end is fine, so it's just going to get new rings, bearings, and gaskets. The top end however is getting completely redone.

My questions are this:

1) Can I re-use the rocker arms from the solid roller set up with a hydraulic flat cam?

2) What cam/spring set-ups would you guys recommend to run this engine reliably, and still make good power?

3) I'm favoring the Comp Magnum, and the Thumper... anyone running one of these? How do you feel about it? Talk me in/out of it.



The goal: Think Power-tour.

It's just an all-around fun car. No more street racing for me, but it may make some passes here and there. Nothing competitive.





How it sits now:




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Unread 2014-12-28, 06:57 PM   #2
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You don't want a thumper cam. They have entirely too much overlap and the result is your eyes will be burning from all the unburnt fuel contaminating the exhaust.

The last 496 I built used an extreme energy hydraulic roller. The customer was worried it wouldn't have enough of a thump at idle but not only did it have a great idle, the overall power it made was amazing. Of course, the AFR 265's had quite a bit to do with the power output.
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Unread 2014-12-28, 08:13 PM   #3
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You can use the same rockers for whatever style cam you choose assuming they will accommodate the cam's lift.

I've always wanted to try out one of Lunati's VooDoo series camshafts, but have yet to do so. I can't really give any recommendation as I have yet to get a chance to actually mess around with a BBC.


Did you ever figure out the overheating situation?
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Unread 2014-12-28, 08:58 PM   #4
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Yeah it was an air flow issue. Fixed by a bigger fan set up to push.
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Unread 2014-12-29, 09:56 PM   #5
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figure true static compression ratio then go to the online dynamic compression ratio calclulators and plug in some cam spec's and get a dcr betwen 8-8.5:1 with the iron heads and be able to run good pump gas... I'd say look at the comp XE grinds and the VooDoo grinds as they tend to have more area under the curve for the ramp profiles than the older flat tappet designs. Springs will match the cam you choose. I'm going to guess that an something along the XE274 will get the DCR close if you're running 11:1 in a bbc. That will probably also idle fairly and make great torque for the street.

To figure out the DCR you'll need piston and head volumes, bore, stroke and rod length and then plug in the cam timing event
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Unread 2014-12-29, 10:45 PM   #6
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Never messed with dcr calculators. I'll look into that, thanks!
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Unread 2014-12-30, 09:48 AM   #7
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There is(was) a good one on the Keith Black Silvoliet website.
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Unread 2014-12-30, 03:23 PM   #8
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Never messed with dcr calculators. I'll look into that, thanks!
That's how you can hear guys say they're running 11:1 on pump gas - they're bleeding off a lot of that compression so the actual running / dynamic compression is a lot less... In general the higher the DCR the better the low RPM torque retention is going to be with a performance cam.... once you read up on it and understand some of the basics you'll understand when a cam says "minimum xx:1 compression" that cam design is bleeding off a lot of pressure down low and would be a total dog otherwise.
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Unread 2014-12-30, 04:01 PM   #9
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Ok so I've been doing the math this afternoon, and found my static compression to be somewhere around 10.89:1 with a .051 head gasket.

With 113cc heads, it looks like COMP's CB XE274H-10 puts the dynamic compression somewhere around 8.47:1. Hopefully it makes enough vaccum to run the power brakes.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k11-246-3


The block, heads, and rods are at the machine shop getting cleaned / honed / rebushed. Hopefully I can have it back together by the end of February.
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Unread 2014-12-30, 04:07 PM   #10
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Although, this cam/static compression ratio is way over my head

Would just like to say, I love this car. Even though its just a 74' Nova, you have made it something special.
the color
the old bomber graphics
old school wheels
unlucky number 13


overall, just a bad ass looking car.

Props man!
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Unread 2014-12-30, 06:35 PM   #11
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Ok so I've been doing the math this afternoon, and found my static compression to be somewhere around 10.89:1 with a .051 head gasket.

With 113cc heads, it looks like COMP's CB XE274H-10 puts the dynamic compression somewhere around 8.47:1. Hopefully it makes enough vaccum to run the power brakes.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k11-246-3


The block, heads, and rods are at the machine shop getting cleaned / honed / rebushed. Hopefully I can have it back together by the end of February.
That's still a pretty mild cam for a BBC, so I'd expecr decent vacuum.

I didn't click thr link, but I ASSume 110 LSA on that like most off the shelf Comp grinds?
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Unread 2014-12-30, 07:45 PM   #12
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I appreciate that. I've been building stuff for years with my dad that was all factory original or a tribute car of some sort... well I finally decided to build one for myself. I didn't want to use something that was potentially valuable, so I picked up this dirtball about 8 years ago for $400. Over the years I've probably only spent about $10,000 on it considering it's been rebuilt about a dozen times for as many different purposes. It'll never be done.
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Unread 2014-12-30, 10:52 PM   #13
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Doug herbert makes some great cams for bbc. The original roller cam inventors i believe as well? Flat tappets are gonna be hard not to ruin S the oils today just wont support them. Hoenstly id go with a hydrolic roller or stay with the solid roller and get a street roller. It will have lower ramp speedz and thats where the short wear life comes from.

Also you do realize osborn runs and is just north up 35 on us36 to the west just 4.9 miles. If the racing bug is still getting ya.
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Unread 2014-12-30, 10:57 PM   #14
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That's still a pretty mild cam for a BBC, so I'd expecr decent vacuum.

I didn't click thr link, but I ASSume 110 LSA on that like most off the shelf Comp grinds?
Yeah it's 110. We'll see how it runs when I get it back together.

I'm also taking the time to re-wire the dash and firewall. Anyone ever used re-pinned junkyard weatherpack harness plugs to wire a car? I think I'm going to do it with the engine, dash, and front/rear light harnesses... so next time I take the car apart I can pull the wiring apart in sections to keep it organized and factory looking.
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Unread 2014-12-31, 09:01 PM   #15
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There are plenty of oils on the market that have enough ZDDP to support the use of flat tappet camshafts. Valvoline VR1, Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, etc. are all good oils and aren't much more expensive than low zinc oils.
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Unread 2015-01-01, 09:24 PM   #16
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There are plenty of oils on the market that have enough ZDDP to support the use of flat tappet camshafts. Valvoline VR1, Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, etc. are all good oils and aren't much more expensive than low zinc oils.
I'd agree 100% - Valvoline VR1 is available in 10w30 and 20w50 and that's what I run in all my flat tappet cars and it's got plenty of zinc/phosphorous - mainly because it's readily available at all the parts stores and wally world (last I looked several years ago).

The only "downside" to a flat tappet cam anymore is if you're going to try and run a late model emissions legal setup with cat converters on it and expect them to last 100k miles...
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Unread 2015-01-01, 11:32 PM   #17
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lol... emissions.
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Unread 2015-01-06, 12:06 AM   #18
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lol... emissions.
My thoughts exactly. I just broke in my lunati voodoo, so I can't really say I prefer it over another brand. I like there steep ramps but I wish I would have went with a hydrolic roller instead of the flat tappet. Ever consider upgrading the heads to accommodate for a hefty cam?
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Unread 2015-01-23, 06:47 PM   #19
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I've thought about it, but I just can't really justify the expense right now. I don't really race anymore so I don't have to make a ton of power. Also there are more responsible things I should probably spend my money on.
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Unread 2015-02-12, 06:29 PM   #20
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Fresh from the machine shop. I'm going to build it on Saturday, and swing it back into the car on Sunday.

I've still got a few fuel lines to make and some wiring to do, but I should be able to break it in on the first day it's warm out, and have it on the road by March.

Looks like I'll actually be able to make the power tour this year.
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Unread 2015-02-16, 05:30 AM   #21
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All together. I need to paint the heads. Bright pink?




I ran into a few problems, so it won't be going into the car until Wednesday.
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Unread 2015-02-19, 01:20 AM   #22
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Almost ready to go in. I need to rent a balancer installation tool, then it's done.

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