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Unread 2018-10-04, 12:56 PM   #1001
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The Decades-Old Backstory Of America's Conflict With North Korea






Steve Inskeep talks to Hampton Sides about his book: On Desperate Ground: The Marines at the Reservoir, the Korean War's Greatest Battle. Sides explores the origins of the conflict with North Korea.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
The historian Hampton Sides has been exploring the origins of the U.S. conflict with North Korea. He's written a history of Americans in a brutal battle in the dead of winter, which happened when Americans tried to unify North and South Korea.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Here's a report direct from the flagship of the United Nations invasion fleet off Inchon. American Marines have stormed the shore onto two beaches of the port city...
INSKEEP: That's a radio announcer giving the news of the U.S. military landing at a port city near Seoul in 1950. North Korea had started the war invading the U.S.-backed South. The United States and its allies struck back with this landing, commanded by one of the era's most famous generals...
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: General McArthur himself is directing the landing.
INSKEEP: ...Douglas MacArthur. His landing worked, as this old movie newsreel proclaimed.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Seemingly, the war had reached a turning point, as the fresh troops started an encircling move of the North Koreans.
INSKEEP: Seemingly. Hampton Sides says MacArthur's forces recaptured South Korea's capital.
HAMPTON SIDES: And he began to get kind of greedy.
INSKEEP: The new book, "On Desperate Ground," examines the plan that MacArthur devised next.
SIDES: Why stop there? Why not go all the way to retake all of Korea, unite the peninsula under one democratic government?
INSKEEP: MacArthur's troops crossed the famous 38th parallel dividing North and South. But what U.S. forces did not quite know, as they moved into North Korea, was that neighboring communist China considered the Americans a threat, and a huge Chinese army was soon crossing the border to oppose them near a landmark called the Chosin Reservoir.
SIDES: It was initially an intelligence failure. We simply didn't know at first because the Chinese were expert at camouflage. They moved only at night. They never used roads. They were a foot army. But then intelligence did begin to trickle in - crystal clear. And MacArthur didn't want to believe this because he wanted to finish the job by Thanksgiving, get the war over with, and so he swept this information under the rug.
INSKEEP: What was the landscape and the situation in which a U.S. Marine division found themselves around a reservoir in North Korea in the winter of 1950-'51?
SIDES: MacArthur ordered the 1st Marine Division to advance to this reservoir up in the mountains of North Korea, to take it and to keep on going to the Yalu. But the commander of the 1st Marine Division, his name is General Oliver Smith, realized that this was a perfect scenario for encirclement. He was very prescient. He seemed to know that a big battle was going to happen on the shores of this frozen lake in the mountains of North Korea.
INSKEEP: Sounds like it was pretty cold.
SIDES: Eighty-five percent of these men suffered from frostbite. Many died of exposure. None of these troops were prepared for fighting in these kinds of conditions.
INSKEEP: You give an incredible detail of an American Marine who is attacked, with the rest of his unit, by the Chinese. It's the middle of the night. It's incredibly cold. He leaps out of his sleeping bag and only realizes, after fighting for hours, that he had never managed to put his boots on.
SIDES: Yeah, this is Hector Cafferata, who received the Congressional Medal of Honor for his exploits that night. He may have killed over a hundred Chinese soldiers, who came wave after wave after wave at him and his position. The Marines, in parts of the battle, were outnumbered 10 to 1 by the Chinese. And he never killed a man before. He'd never been in combat, and suddenly, here he was surrounded.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Twenty-thousand trapped near the Chosin Reservoir, slogged and fought their way 60 bitter miles to the evacuation port of Hungnam. Through snow-clad mountains and icy passes, they held off 200,000.
INSKEEP: The 1st Marine Division escaped, but Chinese troops retook North Korea, and the countries remain divided today. The dividing line only slightly changed, but the Korean people, those who survived, changed a lot. They had a different perspective on the story we just heard.
You focus on one particular Korean, Lee Bae-suk. Who was he?
SIDES: Well, Dr. Lee, as he's now known, he was a North Korean kid and escaped to the South, moved to Seoul as a teenager...
INSKEEP: Only to have the war reach Seoul in 1950, when North Korean forces invaded.
SIDES: His uncle and his aunt were both murdered. Many of his friends were murdered. He had to hide out in a house in Seoul.
INSKEEP: He hid until American forces entered the city, blasting it to ruins as they took it back.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: Troops and equipment pour across toward the capital city of Seoul.
SIDES: He immediately volunteered with the Marines, and they gave him an assignment, which was to go be an interpreter and a guard in the very city that he had grown up in, in North Korea, Hamhung.
INSKEEP: What were Lee's experiences as an American interpreter in the North?
SIDES: He was assigned to guard a bridge in his hometown, a bridge they call The Bridge Of Long Life, and he was there to prevent refugees from crossing it. He hated this assignment. But then he found out that his sister was on the other side of The Bridge Of Long Life and that she was not allowed to cross and that his whole family was about to board one of these ships for this great evacuation to the South and that they were going to have to leave his sister there forever.
And so he prevailed over the American guards. They got into a jeep. They hunted for his sister all over that part of the city, they found her, and she rejoined her family and made it to the South.
INSKEEP: Lee Bae-suk survived the war and emigrated to the United States. He is now Dr. Lee Bae-suk of Cincinnati, Ohio - an American citizen. And Hampton Sides was able to interview him for this book because this story of a divided nation is still less than one lifetime long.
What has it been like to be working on this book about Korea through a period where North Korea has been exploding nuclear weapons and launching missiles and then sending their leader to meet with President Trump and everything else?
SIDES: It's been very strange. And, you know, I'm living in 1950, and I'm living in 2018, where there's so many echoes of this war. It never really ended. We just kind of hit the pause button. And war could break out again at any point. It's kind of terrifying. But, you know, things have been happening in recent months that are exciting because there is such a profound desire, both in the North and the South, for some kind of improvement in the relationship.
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Unread 2018-10-06, 08:02 PM   #1002
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So what was this conspiracy that was supposed to happen today?
It's the beginning of the end of America. Anybody know whats going on with North Korea?
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Unread 2018-10-06, 09:09 PM   #1003
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Yeah pompeo is heading that way today ..let me guess he's signing over our nukes and inviting Kim here ?

Think you need to stay off conspiracy sites
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Unread 2018-10-06, 09:53 PM   #1004
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Yeah pompeo is heading that way today ..let me guess he's signing over our nukes and inviting Kim here ?

Think you need to stay off conspiracy sites
To do what exactly?

Pompeo Lowers Expectations for a Summit Plan in North Korea Visit
Quote:
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo expressed doubts Friday about whether a brief trip to Pyongyang would result in a time and place for another meeting between President Trump and North Korea’s Kim Jong Un, but said that a second summit remains a top goal.
Nikki Haley: ‘Russia is actively working to undermine’ North Korea sanctions

Russia to huddle with North Korea, China after Pompeo trip

Trump says Russia to 'help with North Korea' | Reuters

Nothing to see here because Trump and Kim are in love. No seriously.

Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

Video URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZkt_HZ-hOI

Trump says he's in love with Kim. A murderous oppressive dictator who he gets love letters from. I'm sure that's not effecting his judgment or anything. But maybe I'm just a crazy conspiracy theorist like you all told me after I literally predicted this ENTIRE situation when Trump first agreed to the meeting. Russia, China are going to meet with North Korea after the meeting huh?

March 29th
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Call me paranoid but I think Russia, North Korea and China are making some serious moves and Trump is the perfect oblivious buffoon to fall for their trap. They'll use his arrogance, compulsive need for praise and admiration and his need to be seen as a strong leader against him to blind him to what's really happening. The fact that Trump thinks Putin is his friend and his aggressive reluctance to put sanctions on Russia and Trump accepting a meeting with Kim without seeking counsel first just shows this tactic at work. And anyone who thinks that North Korea really wants to talk to Trump with full intention of getting rid of their nukes, well I have a bridge to sell you. Putin knows Trump is a fraud and he knows an opportunity when he sees one, especially with how divided we are as a country right now.
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This is simply my own theory based on my opinion that there's no way in hell that Trump is going to get them to disarm because of some sort of genius strategy he used. This is either set up to make him look like a hero and set everyone at ease for some nefarious reason or to lure him into talks just to be unreasonable and piss him off enough to do something stupid. If they "disarm", anyone who questions it will just be seen by Trump supporters as loons who can't give Trump a giant win and there's zero chance Trump will ever be convinced that he'e been conned because he's too arrogant to think otherwise. What has really happened to make them all of a sudden agree to peace with South Korea and to disarm? Someone please explain that to me. If Trump truly gets them to disarm and agree to peace then the old powers at be must have just not wanted to resolve the North Korean conflict in the first place. It all just seems too fishy and too easy to me for it to be what they're telling us it is.
Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

Video URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1bJONRk350

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Originally Posted by Oblique View Post
I'm deflecting because of an outcome that falls in line with what I've been predicting? An easy solution to the N Korea problem that takes advantage of Trumps arrogance in order to blind him to whats really going on. Did you notice how Japan and South Korea were both sucking Trump's cock so hard about this whole thing? Please tell me what exactly Trump did to make them just give up their nukes without any concessions whatsoever (as far as I know) or even talking to Trump personally. Was it by calling him rocket man or short and fat? With negotiation skills like this, Trump should just announce a trip to the Middle East. They'll be so intimidated that within a week there should be a peace treaty signed

This was so easy it really just makes me think they were all out of moves and have no missiles left to bluff with. If that's the case then good, I'm glad. I don't give a shit who gets the credit. I'm just happy that they're no longer a threat if that's really what's going on.
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I think this entire thing was meant to push Trump into some sort of conflict with North Korea. Something else is at play here in my opinion. Russia and China might be involved. This is all goes back to my initial theory I posted in here that I was laughed at for. Something major is on it's way to happening.
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Trump should have never agreed to the meeting in the first place. Only a fool would have believed that N Korea would be willing to completely denuclearize.
Assad will never give up his chemical weapons. He has spent years and billions accumulating them. This is all a ruse. 2:39 PM - 10 Sep 2013

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Goddammit. Trump is going to end up making a shit deal and proclaim what a great victory it is. Anyone who criticizes it will be told they are just Trump haters. Trump will defend it like it's his greatest accomplishment ever. And his supporters will eat it all up.
China, Russia and Iran are laughing at us. We have weak leaders who are threatening our national security. Dangerous times.
2:19 PM · Sep 12, 2013


Btw, I don't read conspiracy sites. I read information and come to my own conclusions.
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Unread 2018-10-07, 10:58 AM   #1005
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Btw, I don't read conspiracy sites. I read information and come to my own conclusions.
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Unread 2018-10-07, 11:24 AM   #1006
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It'd be stupid to not listen to what the biggest cult in America believes. You know Trump and his team endorse Q right? So who are you really rolling your eyes at?







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Unread 2018-10-07, 09:41 PM   #1007
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Pompeo: 'We Continue To Make Progress' With North Korea





U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (left) met with South Korean President Moon Jae-in (right) on Sunday at the presidential Blue House in Seoul, following talks with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Pyongyang.


Ahn Young-Joon/AFP/Getty Images




U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo wrapped up his fourth visit to North Korea on Sunday, describing his talks with leader Kim Jong Un as productive.
Pompeo met with Kim for about two hours, according to a pool report from CBS' Kylie Atwood, the only U.S. journalist who accompanied the secretary on his trip. The visit comes after President Trump's historic summit with Kim in June, which resulted in a vague commitment from Pyongyang to denuclearize.


"Had a good trip to #Pyongyang to meet with Chairman Kim," Pompeo said on Twitter, adding that the leaders "continue to make progress on agreements made at Singapore Summit."




A U.S. official who accompanied Pompeo on the trip, and spoke to Fox News on the condition of anonymity, said the Sunday meeting was "better than the last time" but that "it's going to be a long haul."


After their private meeting, Kim hosted Pompeo for lunch at the Paekhwawon State Guest House. As Pompeo waited for him, he clasped his hands in front of his body and State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert said, "It's like you are standing at the alt[a]r," according to the pool report. Pompeo smiled but said nothing in return.
When Kim entered the room, the leaders exchanged pleasantries.



"So is everything OK?" Kim asked through an interpreter as they walked toward the banquet hall.


"Everything is great," Pompeo said. "Everything is great. I am very much looking forward to our time together too."
As the guests took their seats at the table, Kim said, "It's a very nice day that promises a good future for both countries."


Pompeo thanked him for hosting the event and conveyed President Trump's regards.


Onto South Korea
Later that afternoon, Pompeo touched down in Seoul to meet with South Korean President Moon Jae-in.


Moon thanked Pompeo for coming straight to the capital after his meeting with Kim, calling it a very important day. He said, "I dearly hope that your latest visit, as well as the upcoming U.S.-North Korea summit, which I hope will be happening soon, will make an irreversible and decisive progress in terms of complete denuclearization on the Korean Peninsula as well as the peace process."



He asked Pompeo to share what he could with the public.
Pompeo thanked him and said, "I don't have much to add. I will certainly tell you in private about our conversation, but we had a good, productive conversation."



He continued, "As President Trump has said, there are many steps along the way and we took one of those today; it was another step forward."



Pompeo offered no further details, such as whether he had established a time and place for a second summit or what either side was demanding, but Moon's press secretary shared more in a statement reported by South Korean news agency Yonhap: At a closed meeting, Pompeo told Moon that he and Kim agreed to arrange a second U.S.-North Korea summit "at the earliest possible date," as well as discuss the specifics of date and location, Press Secretary Yoon Young-chan said.


Pompeo also spoke about additional denuclearization steps and Washington's monitoring of the verification process and "corresponding measures," Yoon said.


"The two sides will form working-level negotiation teams to discuss North Korea's denuclearization process and Trump-Kim summit schedule," Yoon said.


Spokesperson Heather Nauert said later on Sunday that Pompeo and Kim also agreed to instruct their working-level teams to meet soon, and that Kim invited inspectors to visit the Punggye Ri nuclear test site to confirm that it had been irreversibly dismantled.


The U.S., in its mission for a fully verified denuclearization of North Korea, demands that the country turn over a full inventory of its nuclear weapons program. North Korea has rejected those demands and wants sanctions to be lifted before nuclear talks proceed.



South Korea has suggested that the U.S. sign a treaty formally ending the Korean War, in exchange for North Korea closing its main nuclear plant, as NPR's Anthony Kuhn reported for our Newscast.






Gridlock has been part and parcel of the negotiation process. In August, Trump canceled Pompeo's trip to North Korea because they were "not making sufficient progress" in the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, he said.
On Sunday, after Pompeo's meeting with Kim, Trump tweeted "Progress made on Singapore Summit Agreements! I look forward to seeing Chairman Kim again, in the near future."


Pompeo's trip started with a visit to Tokyo on Friday, where he met with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to coordinate positions in the push to get Pyongyang to relinquish its nuclear weapons.


On Monday, Pompeo is expected to land in Beijing — the last stop on his whirlwind diplomatic tour.
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Unread 2018-10-07, 10:38 PM   #1008
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This is what the Trump administration calls progress. 4 months and what? A long drawn out process that keeps kicking the can down the road, exactly like I said.
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Unread 2018-10-17, 09:27 AM   #1009
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North Korea slams US for 'evil' sanctions push


SEOUL: North Korea's state media on Tuesday (Oct 16) slammed the United States for an "evil" attempt to maintain sanctions against Pyongyang, accusing President Donald Trump of blocking progress in inter-Korean relations.
The declaration threatens to upset the negotiations between Washington and the nuclear-armed North, in which Trump is expected to hold a second summit soon with Pyongyang's leader Kim Jong Un.

At their first meeting in Singapore in June they signed a vaguely-worded pledge on denuclearisation, but little progress has been made since then with the two sides sparring over the meaning of the text.


Pyongyang has not made any explicit public promise to give up its existing arsenal but has repeatedly called for UN Security Council sanctions imposed over its weapons programmes to be loosened, citing a freeze in its nuclear and missile tests.


For its part Washington has been adamant the measures should be maintained until Pyongyang's complete denuclearisation.


Washington was playing a "double game", said a lengthy commentary carried by the North's official KCNA news agency, and was "little short of destroying" the rare diplomatic opportunity between the two.



"Hostile policy and reciprocity can not go together," it said, and negotiations would not move forward "an inch with an obstacle called sanctions".

"The US ... is responding to good faith with evil," it added.

"ENRAGED ALL KOREANS"

KCNA said the article, nearly 1,700 words long and titled "What Do Ill-boding Remarks from US Signify", had been "made public" by Kim Chol Myong.

No further details about its origins or the author's affiliation were given, suggesting that "Kim Chol Myong" is likely to be a pseudonym.

But the fact that it was carried by Pyongyang's official news agency indicates that it has the authorities' approval.
It was published just days after US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo visited Pyongyang and said he had "productive" talks on denuclearisation with the North Korean leader.

After an earlier Pompeo visit in July the North issued an angrily-worded official foreign ministry statement condemning what it called his "unilateral" demands for its disarmament, describing them as "gangster-like".
It cast doubt on the prospects for progress - even though it proclaimed "our good faith in President Trump" - and prompted the US leader to cancel a scheduled August trip to Pyongyang by his Secretary of State, before a fresh round of visits and a letter from Kim restarted the process.

But Tuesday's declaration went further, implicitly criticising the US leader - who is known to consider personal relationships important.

Without naming Trump, it referred to his comments last week that Seoul would not lift its own sanctions against the North "without our approval".

"Even the White House made such threatening words," KCNA said, "enraging not only south Koreans but all other Koreans".

South Korea's dovish President Moon Jae-in - who has held three meetings with Kim this year - has vowed to honour the UN sanctions but agreed to pursue a handful of joint economic projects with the North.

After his visit this month Pompeo said Kim had agreed to allow international inspectors to visit a nuclear test site that the North dismantled in May but did not elaborate on any offers made by the US in return.
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Unread 2018-10-17, 10:28 AM   #1010
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They don't have a rocket that can reach the middle of the country do they?
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Unread 2018-10-17, 12:09 PM   #1011
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on paper and in their minds and CGI computer sims
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Unread 2018-10-17, 12:57 PM   #1012
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on paper and in their minds and CGI computer sims
Weren't you the one laughing at me cause I kept saying there was more to the "Space Force" and it wasn't just some dumb idea Trump had?
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Unread 2018-10-17, 01:05 PM   #1013
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Space force is still a joke ... haven't seen any traction because it's asinine ... this is coming from someone that wears the uniform

Everyone laughs at you not just me so .. not sure what to tell you, lay off the nutty posts?
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Unread 2018-10-17, 01:07 PM   #1014
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Space force is still a joke ... haven't seen any traction because it's asinine ... this is coming from someone that wears the uniform

Everyone laughs at you not just me so .. not sure what to tell you, lay off the nutty posts?
When the truth stops being nutty, then I will.

Just wait.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projec...erican_Century

Quote:
...favored the development of "global missile defenses," and the control of "space and cyberspace," including the creation of a new military service with the mission of "space control." To help achieve these aims, Rebuilding America's Defenses advocated a gradual increase in military and defense spending "to a minimum level of 3.5 to 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, adding $15 billion to $20 billion to total defense spending annually.

Rebuilding America's Defenses

Written before the September 11 attacks, and during political debates of the War in Iraq, a section of Rebuilding America's Defenses entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force" became the subject of considerable controversy: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor." Journalist John Pilger pointed to this passage when he argued that Bush administration had used the events of September 11 as an opportunity to capitalize on long-desired plans.
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Unread 2018-10-17, 01:10 PM   #1015
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ok
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Unread 2018-10-17, 01:12 PM   #1016
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Originally Posted by JDLM View Post
ok
Let's get a bet going for real. I want to clean house before this whole thing goes up in flames.
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Unread 2018-10-17, 01:13 PM   #1017
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go shit in other threads
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Unread 2018-10-19, 02:49 PM   #1018
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US suspends military exercises with South Korea to help North Korea talks

Announcement comes while Defence Secretary James Mattis is in Singapore for a meeting of Asian defence ministers
The US and South Korea have suspended planned joint military exercises to help diplomatic efforts with North Korea, the Pentagon has announced.

Pentagon spokeswoman, Dana White, said Washington and Seoul are suspending an air exercise known as Vigilant Ace “to give the diplomatic process every opportunity to continue.”

That announcement comes while Pentagon chief Defence Secretary James Mattis is in Singapore for a meeting of Asian defence ministers.

Vigilant Ace is one of several exercises that have been suspended to encourage dialogue aimed at getting North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons. Vigilant Ace is an annual exercise last held in December 2017.

In June the Pentagon cancelled this year’s Freedom Guardian exercise after President Donald Trump abruptly announced that he disapproved of the manoeuvres during a historic meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un,

The president called them provocative and expensive. The exercises are one of the major issues that Pyongyang has consistently railed against – also labelling them provocative.

Ms White said Mr Mattis and his South Korean counterpart are “committed to modifying training exercises to ensure the readiness of our forces.”

“They pledged to maintain close coordination and evaluate future exercises,” she said.

On Friday Mr Mattis met jointly with his South Korean and Japanese counterparts and then met separately with Japanese officials.



(being in Korea and suspended training has go to suck)
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Unread 2018-10-19, 03:03 PM   #1019
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Well at least they'll be over and safe when the bombs drop.
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Unread 2018-10-19, 03:19 PM   #1020
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yeah not really , I did evacuation drills on the peninsula and trying to get people into the meet spots etc.. it's not an easy task, Seoul isn't that far out of range of any immediate attacks.
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Unread 2018-10-28, 01:38 PM   #1021
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US envoy on N. Korea arrives in Seoul for talks


Stephen Biegun, the US’ special representative for North Korea, arrived in South Korea on Sunday to meet with his counterpart to discuss the countries’ shared efforts to rid the Korean Peninsula of nuclear weapons programs.



On Monday, Biegun is set to hold separate meetings with his South Korean counterpart, Lee Do-hoon, and with Foreign Minister Kang Kyung-wha to discuss issues including recent developments on Washington’s efforts to hold high-level and working-level talks with North Korean officials.

Biegun and Lee are expected to discuss the issue of sanctions exemptions to pave the way for inter-Korean cooperation projects such as the reconnection of cross-border railways and roads, which Seoul argues will facilitate Pyongyang’s denuclearization.

As he arrived in the afternoon, Biegun refused to answer any questions from South Korean reporters. Accompanying him were Allison Hooker, National Security Council adviser, and Kevin Kim, senior adviser at the State Department.

Biegun’s visit comes amid a lack of progress in denuclearization talks between North Korea and the US. A war of nerves between Pyongyang and Washington is intensifying ahead of a possible second summit expected early next year.

North Korea has stepped up calls for sanctions relief and an end-of-war declaration in return for goodwill measures it has already taken, such as a dismantling of its Punggye-ri nuclear site, while the US has demanded the North take concrete denuclearization steps first.

The North is increasingly raising complaints with South Korea for a lack of progress on inter-Korean projects, which cannot advance dramatically without sanctions relief, and it is seen to be moving closer to Russia and China.



North Korean Vice Foreign Minister Shin Hong-chol arrived in Moscow on Saturday, possibly to discuss North Korean leader Kim Jong-un’s visit to Russia, which is also expected to be high on the agenda during Biegun’s meeting with Kim.

Biegun’s fourth visit to Seoul comes less than a week after he met with his South Korean counterpart in Washington.

His visit to Seoul sparked speculation over possible progress in the US-North Korea negotiations, or possible working-level talks between the countries at the border truce village of Panmunjom, but Washington has denied this.

The US seeks to hold working-level and senior-level talks with North Korean officials to move forward on denuclearization and prepare for a second summit with the North, but it has yet to receive a response from the North, according to diplomatic sources here.
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Unread 2018-10-29, 10:40 AM   #1022
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On North Korea, the South’s Leader Has One Key Point: Kim Jong-un Is Different


Kim Jong-un, left, the North Korean leader, and President Moon Jae-in of South Korea during a visit to Samjiyon,

SEOUL, South Korea — President Moon Jae-in of South Korea takes every opportunity to describe Kim Jong-un, North Korea’s leader, as a “young and candid” strategist, one who is ready to bargain away his nuclear arsenal to secure economic growth for his impoverished nation.
In doing so, Mr. Moon is attempting something that his predecessors who favored dialogue with the North also tried to do, but failed: changing North Korea’s global image as a regime that simply cannot be trusted.

For decades, it has been an article of faith among Washington’s foreign policy establishment, as well Mr. Moon’s conservative critics at home, that North Korea will renege on any agreement made. For that reason, they say, there can be no substantial concessions to the North in the talks over its nuclear weapons until it takes real steps toward disarming.

That view has contributed to a standoff in the talks between the North and the United States. As Mr. Moon has pushed to deepen ties with Pyongyang, the backlash from his critics has been swift. A major South Korean newspaper this month called him the “chief spokesman for Kim Jong-un,” and an American commentator, quoting Creedence Clearwater Revival, recently referred to him as a “bad Moon on the rise.”

“There is a bottom-line difference between President Moon and the skeptics,” said Koh Yu-hwan, a professor of North Korean studies at Dongguk University in Seoul. “He believes that Kim Jong-un was sincere when he told him that he was willing to denuclearize. The skeptics don’t.”
If Mr. Kim wanted to change his image from nuclear madman to mature negotiator, it’s unlikely he could have found a better agent than Mr. Moon.


Mr. Moon and his wife, Kim Jung-sook, right, met Pope Francis during a private audience at the Vatican this month.CreditPool photo by Alessandro Di Meo

Mr. Moon, who has met with Mr. Kim three times this year, has repeatedly endorsed him as a leader of good faith. After their first meeting in April, Mr. Moon’s office quoted Mr. Kim as saying, “I know that the Americans are viscerally repulsed by us North Koreans, but if they talk with us, they will find out that I am not the type of person who would shoot a nuclear missile to the South or toward the Pacific or at the United States.”

Mr. Moon brokered the unprecedented summit talks between Mr. Kim and President Trump in Singapore in June and is helping to arrange a second meeting between the two. He is also lobbying for Pope Francis to visit the North, which would be another first.

A central message in Mr. Moon’s diplomatic efforts is that Mr. Kim truly wants to be a great economic reformer for his country, as Deng Xiaoping was for China decades ago, and that the world must not miss the opportunity. Mr. Kim, he says, intends to negotiate away his nuclear weapons if Washington lifts sanctions and provides security guarantees, like a peace treaty ending the Korean War, so he can focus on economic development.

”Chairman Kim told me that besides the moratorium on testing nuclear weapons and missiles, he would dismantle the facilities that produce them, as well as all the nuclear weapons and fissile materials his country owns, if the United States takes corresponding measures,” Mr. Moon said this month.

Even leaving aside the question of his true intentions, Mr. Kim is a difficult figure to vouch for.

He has indeed taken steps to reform his country’s economy, allowing markets and private businesses to open, giving farmers more freedom to sell their crops and factory managers more autonomy to decide what to produce. Despite international sanctions, he engineered a building boom in Pyongyang, the capital, which Mr. Moon called “remarkable progress” when he addressed a cheering crowd of 150,000 there in September.

But Mr. Kim also had his uncle executed and his half brother assassinated in a foreign airport. And his country’s record on human rights is among the world’s worst.

Last year, Mr. Kim was following his father and predecessor Kim Jong-il’s “military first” playbook as he accelerated nuclear and missile tests and threatened the United States, as well as the region, with nuclear war. But this year, he announced a “new strategic line” under which “all efforts” would be channeled toward “the socialist economic construction.”

In less than a year, Mr. Kim has made more concessions on his nuclear weapons program than Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush ever extracted from his father — though critics say that in truth, he has given up little of substance. He imposed a voluntary moratorium on nuclear and long-range missile tests and shut down the North’s underground nuclear test site. He also agreed to dismantle some missile-test facilities and — if Washington took “corresponding” steps — to dismantle the Yongbyon nuclear complex, a center for producing nuclear bomb fuel.




A North Korean soldier marching in the truce village of Panmunjom in the Demilitarized Zone, which separates North and South Korea.CreditDita Alangkara/Associated Press

But he has yet to state in his own words whether, and when, he will scrap his nuclear arsenal.

Mr. Moon’s critics say he is playing into the North Korean leader’s hands. Mr. Kim’s ultimate goal, they say, is to get the world accustomed to the reality of a nuclear-armed North, while using negotiations to stall for time and create a false sense of progress.

“We had tried this in past negotiations: offering North Korea a comprehensive package of incentives in the hopes that it would denuclearize,” said Yun Duk-min, a former chancellor of the Korea National Diplomatic Academy who now teaches at the Hankuk University of Foreign Studies in Seoul. “It didn’t work. I don’t think it will this time, either.”

But another South Korean analyst, Lee Seong-hyon, shared Mr. Moon’s vision, saying “a great transformation” was unfolding on the Korean Peninsula.

“It’s easy to make the same old argument about why North Korea can’t be trusted,” said Mr. Lee, of the Sejong Institute near Seoul. “But rather than being fixated on the old way of looking at North Korea, we should ask ourselves whether we can recognize Kim Jong-un as a new type of leader and find a solution there.”

Even if Mr. Moon and Mr. Kim haven’t convinced every analyst, they have made a far bigger score with Mr. Trump, whose attitude toward Mr. Kim and the North has changed drastically.

“I do trust him,” Mr. Trump said this month, barely a year after threatening to “totally destroy North Korea.” “I get along with him really well. I have a good energy with him.”
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has also expressed a willingness to give Mr. Kim the benefit of the doubt, at least to some degree. Mr. Kim, he said recently, told the Americans that he had made the strategic decision that the North no longer needs its nuclear arsenal.

But that transition is “a very difficult challenge for a North Korean leader,” Mr. Pompeo said, because the country has depended for decades on the nuclear program as the linchpin for its security. “To execute on that is complex and will take time,” he said.
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Unread 2018-11-02, 01:38 PM   #1023
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Why Trump Holds the Cards on North Korea Sanctions

In October, President Donald Trump slapped down South Korean efforts to ease sanctions on North Korea, saying it couldn’t be done “without our approval.” He’s not far off. The U.S.’s veto on the United Nations Security Council and its status as Seoul’s security guarantor give it the power to keep the harshest sanctions in place for as long as Trump wants. Still, he’s facing growing calls from China, Russia and South Korea to ease pressure on Kim Jong Un, as they seek to advance their own interests in Pyongyang.


1. What sanctions does Kim face?

The Security Council has passed 10 rounds of sanctions since 2006, including a flurry of measures that Trump secured with China’s support last year. Today, about 90 percent of North Korea’s exports are banned, including coal, iron ore, seafood and textiles. Its purchases of crude oil and refined petroleum products have been capped. The U.S. and its allies have piled on their own unilateral sanctions, including travel bans and asset freezes on North Korean officials. South Korea’s are among the most stinging, banning tourism and cultural exchanges and North Korean ships from its waters.


2. What are sanctions doing?

Reports from visitors, diplomats and outside analysts suggest North Korea’s economy is suffering but far from collapse. Estimates from South Korea’s central bank show its gross domestic product contracted 3.5 percent last year. Seoul National University Professor Kim Byung-Yeon told Japan’s Nikkei newspaper on Oct. 25 that he expected output to shrink by at least another 5 percent this year. Moreover, the embargo keeps Kim from attracting the outside investment necessary to support his modernization plans, prompting him to lash out at “hostile forces” who are “foolishly keen on vicious sanctions.”


3. Who wants sanctions lifted?

While the Trump administration wants to preserve “maximum pressure” until Kim shows a greater commitment to denuclearize, China and Russia -- both veto-wielding Security Council members -- have called for easing sanctions to reward moves he’s already made. South Korean President Moon Jae-in joined the chorus as he and Kim push relations between the two rivals to historic highs. Trump’s rebuke forced Moon to walk back a suggestion that South Korea could unilaterally repeal a sweeping sanctionspackage from 2010.


4. What would it take to ease sanctions?


The UN resolutions demand that North Korea “immediately abandon all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs in a complete, verifiable and irreversible manner,” a standard few non-proliferation analysts believe Kim would ever accept. Although the Trump administration has signaled that it might settle for “final, fully verified denuclearization,” it hasn’t explained what that means. And Trump holds the cards, since the U.S. can veto any resolution it doesn’t like. Moon could still repeal South Korea’s penalties, but many of those measures have been superseded, and the rebuke from Trump shows Moon doesn’t think the payoff is worth the damage to their alliance.
5. What can China do?

Chinese President Xi Jinping’s support was crucial to helping Trump secure the UN sanctions, and now that they’re warring over trade, the U.S. president has accused Beijing of relaxing the pressure. While there have been reports of easier inspections at the North Korean border, China deniesthe claims and vows to uphold the UN penalties. Evading sanctions could carry serious risks for Xi, undercutting his efforts to promote the UN as the best venue to settle international disputes. He might also prompt retaliatory measures from Trump, such as U.S. sanctions on Chinese state-owned banks.
6. What options does Kim have?

With the U.S. wielding procedural power, Kim has exploited his political and diplomatic levers to build pressure for sanctions relief without degrading his arsenal. Chief among those is Trump’s desire to recreate his peacemaking headlines with a second summit. North Korea has warned the Trump administration that its “gangster-like” disarmament demands could jeopardize the relationship, with one state media commentary published Oct. 20 accusing the U.S. of “duplicity and two-faced behavior.” North Korea has put similar pressure on Moon, who wants to preserve a detente with Kim that has seen their names floated for the Nobel Peace Prize.
7. What are Moon’s options?

Facing a recalcitrant U.S., Moon has taken his case for sanctions relief to the capitals of Europe. He’s also initiated a series of projects with North Korea that required waivers from a UN committee that polices sanctions, such as hosting Olympic athletes, sending materials to reopen a cross-border military hotline and organizing reunions between Korean families separated by war. He secured a similar waiver from the U.S. to let two top North Korean officials -- Kim’s sister, Kim Yo Jong, and No. 2 Kim Yong Chol -- attend the Winter Olympics in February in South Korea.
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Unread 2018-11-03, 01:09 PM   #1024
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https://news.sky.com/story/north-kor...ramme-11543463

Quote:
North Korea threatens to restart nuclear weapons programme
Pyongyang says it "cannot stop laughing" at the "foolish idea" that ongoing US sanctions will lead to denuclearisation.

North Korea has warned it could revive its policy of building up its nuclear arsenal if the United States does not lift economic sanctions against the country.

In a statement, North Korea's foreign ministry said the "improvement of relations and sanctions is incompatible".

"The US thinks that its oft-repeated 'sanctions and pressure' leads to 'denuclearisation'," it said.

"We cannot help laughing at such a foolish idea," it said.

North Korea said the lifting of US-led sanctions would be a direct response to Pyongyang's "proactive and goodwill measures" - a reference to its unilateral suspension of nuclear and intercontinental ballistic missile tests and closure of a nuclear testing ground.

It said it could bring back its "pyongjin" policy of simultaneously advancing its nuclear force and economic development if the US failed to change its stance.

It is the first time Pyongyang has threatened to resume its nuclear weapons programme since North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and US President Donald Trump met for the first time in June.

The summit in Singapore was described by critics as heavy on theatre but weak on substance.

Mr Kim requested a second meeting with Mr Trump in a letter in September.

The US president said secretary of state Mike Pompeo was working on the details, adding: "We will be doing that".

Reacting to criticism that more promises should have been extracted from Mr Kim at the last summit, Mr Pompeo told NBC at the time: "We have our eyes wide open.

"There is a long way to go to get chairman Kim to live up to the commitment that he made to President Trump and, indeed, to the demands of the world in the UN Security Council resolutions to get him to fully denuclearise."

On Friday, Mr Pompeo said he planned to resume talks with North Korea on taking firmer steps towards denuclearisation and organising another summit between Mr Trump and Mr Kim.

"A lot of work remains, but I'm confident that we will keep the economic pressure in place until such time as chairman Kim fulfils the commitment he made to President Trump back in June in Singapore," he said.
Yup, Trumps has so many cards they're shaking in their nukes.
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Unread 2018-11-03, 05:12 PM   #1025
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If Trump cured cancer Oblique would complain.
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