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Unread 2018-10-14, 11:37 AM   #1
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Default Does a US ally exist that's worse than Saudi Arabia?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-a...nce-1539522239


Turkey has video of the journalist (a Saudi himself, but a critic of that government) going in the Saudi consulate and not coming back out. Their best guess is he was chopped up and put in a van.
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Unread 2018-10-14, 11:47 AM   #2
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Over/Under on Trump exposing their role in 9/11 and using that to his advantage?
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Unread 2018-10-14, 12:26 PM   #3
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Over/Under on Trump exposing their role in 9/11 and using that to his advantage?

That would be a great reason for an assassination attempt.
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Unread 2018-10-14, 12:47 PM   #4
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Well the walls are closing in on him so its about time for war.


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"I predict that President Obama will at some point attack Iran in order to save face!" 16 Sep 2013


Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in tailspin – watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate.2:39 PM - 9 Oct 2012


In order to get elected, @BarackObama will start a war with Iran.


Don't let Obama play the Iran card in order to start a war in order to get elected--be careful Republicans! (Oct 22, 012)


Remember that I predicted a long time ago that President Obama will attack Iran because of his inability to negotiate properly-not skilled! (2013-Nov-10)


"Polls are starting to look really bad for Obama. Looks like he'll have to start a war or major conflict to win. Don't put it past him!" (2012-Oct-17)
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Unread 2018-10-14, 03:06 PM   #5
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Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

Video URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-7bxI_XOoQ
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Unread 2018-10-15, 12:22 PM   #6
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FBI Declassification Underway in 9/11 Saudi Suit

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Pulled into a legal battle 15 years in the making, lawyers for the U.S. government apprised the court Friday of its efforts to declassify documents that could link Saudi Arabia to the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

“The 9/11 families have waited for years for this moment,” Steven Pounian, an attorney for the survivors, said Friday at a hearing in New York.

The breakthrough was made possible this past March when Saudi Arabia lost its bid to avert a lawsuit calling it liable for the deadly attacks 17 years ago on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

As part of that case, U.S. District Judge George Daniels granted the families limited discovery to explore Saudi Arabia’s connections to Omar al-Bayoumi and Fahad al-Thumairy — a reputed intelligence officer and former consular official, respectively, whose alleged ties to hijackers Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi are detailed in a 28-page section of the 9/11 Commission Report, which the U.S. government declassified two years ago.

With the lawsuit against Saudi Arabia picking up steam, the government will be forced to reveal more information about the men.

“Our office asked the FBI to conduct a declassification and privilege review,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Sarah Normand said.

Normand revealed that the government is processing three tranches of documents, including of FBI witness interviews known as 302s.

Although the Saudi government’s attorney Michael Kellogg downplayed these files as “hearsay,” Pounian asserted that they will help tie al-Thumairy to a circle of people in the Los Angeles area linking the kingdom to the hijackers.

“Those documents are going to go, we expect, to the heart of that,” said Pounian, a partner at the firm Kreindler & Kreindler,

The attorney claimed that the Saudi government has not been making their job easy in turning over what he described as an unsorted, unindexed and incomplete document dump entirely in Arabic.

Denying that, Kellogg, the kingdom’s attorney, said: “We did not dump the documents willy-nilly on the plaintiffs.”

Four separate law firms have been sorting out the bounty, and Pounian requested another month before seeking to compel seven more Saudi-tied witnesses that he believes to have found in Thumairy and Bayoumi’s orbit.

“We have been engaged this summer in an investigation, a private investigation, ourselves, very intense,” the attorney said.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Sarah Netburn granted that 30-day extension, but she indicated that she may not be as accommodating next time.

“I think the families would like to have closure,” Netburn said.

Attorneys for the families must submit a brief with their discovery demands by Oct. 26.

“My primary goal is to move this case forward,” the judge added.

A longtime irritant on the U.S.-Saudi relationship, the 9/11 liability suit turned a corner after the families persuaded Congress to enact the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, narrowing the kingdom’s sovereign immunity.

When that law passed two years ago, over the objections of then-President Barack Obama, the Saudi government responded with an ultimately empty threat to sell up to $750 billion in U.S. Treasury securities.

Tensions flared up again in the lead-up to today’s hearing over the disappearance of Washington Post reporter Jamal Khashoggi, who was last seen entering the Saudi embassy in Istanbul and is presumed dead. Anonymous Turkish authorities have told news outlets that a Saudi assassination squad deployed by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman tortured, killed and dismembered the journalist.

International backlash is proving furious. Top executives from Viacom, Uber, HP, Android and the Los Angeles Times rebuked the Crown Prince by dropping out of the so-called “Davos in the Desert,” as the White House faces questions over President Donald Trump’s refusal to put financial pressure on the kingdom.



"Attorneys for the families must submit a brief with their discovery demands by Oct. 26."

Right on time.
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Unread 2018-10-17, 01:01 AM   #7
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Trump Calls The Saudis As Innocent as Brett Kavanaugh

Body of missing Saudi journalist was cut into pieces, Turkish official says


Jared Kushner 'deeply involved' in White House response to Khashoggi’s disappearance

Pompeo Helps the Saudis Sweep a Murder Under the Rug


A Saudi Prince Helped Save Trump From Bankruptcy—Twice

This is probably the most important story right now and of course no one is talking about it. Trump is so wrapped up in them that I really don't know how this is all going to play out. Maybe it won't be him that uses the 9/11 info but the way the case got announced to be moving forward right after this happened is a big indicator of something. Maybe this is what brings him down instead of what causes him to take more power.
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Unread 2018-10-19, 11:55 PM   #9
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKCN1MU00F

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Saudi Arabia admits Khashoggi died in consulate, Trump says Saudi account credible

Saudi Arabia said on Saturday that journalist Jamal Khashoggi died in a fight inside its Istanbul consulate and that it fired two senior officials over his death, an account President Donald Trump said was credible but U.S. lawmakers found hard to believe.

Saudi Arabia’s acknowledgement that Khashoggi died in the consulate came after two weeks of denials that it had anything to do with his disappearance, and followed growing demands from Western allies for an explanation of what happened.

His disappearance sparked a global outcry and prompted some U.S. lawmakers to call for harsh action against Riyadh.

Saudi state media said King Salman had ordered the dismissal of two senior officials: Saud al-Qahtani, a royal court advisor seen as the right-hand man to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, and deputy intelligence chief Ahmed Asiri, a statement on state media said.

Saudi Arabia provided no evidence to support its account of the circumstances that led to Khashoggi’s death and it was unclear whether Western allies would be satisfied with the Saudi version of events.

“I think it’s a good first step, it’s a big step. It’s a lot of people, a lot of people involved, and I think it’s a great first step,” Trump, who has made close ties with Saudi Arabia a centerpiece of his foreign policy, told reporters in Arizona.

“Saudi Arabia has been a great ally. What happened is unacceptable,” he said, adding that he would speak with the crown prince.

Trump also emphasized Riyadh’s importance in countering regional rival Iran and the importance for American jobs of massive U.S. arms sales to Saudi Arabia.

Some U.S. lawmakers however were unpersuaded by Riyadh’s account.

“To say that I am skeptical of the new Saudi narrative about Mr. Khashoggi is an understatement,” said Republican U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham, a Trump ally who has been sharply critical of Saudi Arabia over the incident.

Trump said he would be working with Congress on next moves, but “I would prefer that we don’t use as retribution cancelling $110 billion worth of work, which means 600,000 jobs .... we need them as a counterbalance to Iran.”

Khashoggi, a critic of the crown prince who lived in the United States and was a Washington Post columnist, had led to mounting pressure from the West on Saudi Arabia to provide convincing answers.

He went missing after entering the consulate on Oct. 2 to obtain documents for his upcoming marriage. Days later, Turkish officials said they believed he was killed in the building, an allegation that Saudi Arabia had, until now, strenuously denied.

In a separate statement on Saturday, the Saudi public prosecutor said a fight broke out between Khashoggi and people who met him in the consulate, leading to his death.

“The investigations are still underway and 18 Saudi nationals have been arrested,” the statement said.

Turkish sources have told Reuters the authorities have an audio recording purportedly documenting Khashoggi’s murder inside the consulate. Turkish pro-government newspaper Yeni Safak has published what it said were details from the audio. It said Khashoggi’s torturers cut off his fingers during an interrogation and later beheaded and dismembered him.

Before the Saudi announcements, Trump said he might consider sanctions, although he has also appeared unwilling to distance himself too much from the Saudi leadership.

Other Western allies have yet to react to Riyadh’s explanation and a main question will be whether they believe that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who has painted himself as a reformer, has no culpability.

King Salman has handed the day-to-day running of Saudi Arabia to his son, commonly known as MbS.

But, the disappearance of Khashoggi has tarnished Prince Mohammed’s reputation and deepened questions about his leadership.

And, the growing crisis prompted the king to intervene, five sources with links to the Saudi royal family told Reuters.

The king also ordered the formation of a ministerial committee headed by the crown prince to restructure the general intelligence agency, state media said on Friday, suggesting MbS still retained wide-ranging authorities.

The White House said in a statement that it had seen the Saudi announcement and would continue to press for “justice that is timely, transparent, and in accordance with all due process.”

Republican Senator Rand Paul tweeted: “We should also halt all military sales, aid and cooperation immediately. There must be a severe price for these actions by Saudi Arabia.”

Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal told CNN the Saudi explanation “absolutely defies credibility”.

In an early rebuke to Riyadh, senior officials from several governments, including U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, executives from major companies, and international media commentators withdrew from a high-profile investment conference slated for later this month.

‘NO ORDERS TO KILL HIM’
Qahtani, 40, entered the royal court under the late King Abdullah but only rose to prominence after latching onto Prince Mohammed, becoming a rare confidante in his secretive inner circle.

Sources say Qahtani would regularly speak on behalf of the crown prince and has given direct orders to senior officials including in the country’s security apparatus.

People close to Khashoggi and the government said Qahtani had tried to lure him back to Saudi Arabia after he moved to Washington a year ago fearing reprisals for his views.

In a Twitter thread from August 2017 asking his 1.35 million followers to flag accounts to include in a black list for monitoring, Qahtani wrote: “Do you think I make decisions without guidance? I am an employee and a faithful executor of the orders of my lord the king and my lord the faithful crown prince.”

In a tweet on Saturday, he thanked the king and crown prince for the “big confidence” they had in him.

The other dismissed official, Asiri had joined the Saudi military in 2002, according to Saudi media reports, serving as spokesman for a coalition backing Yemen’s ousted president after Prince Mohammed led Saudi Arabia into that country’s civil war in 2015. Asiri was named deputy chief of foreign intelligence by royal decree in April 2017.

The crown prince had no knowledge of the specific operation that resulted in Khashoggi’s death, a Saudi official familiar with the investigation said.

“There were no orders for them to kill him or even specifically kidnap him,” said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity and adding that there was a standing order to bring critics of the kingdom back to the country.

Trump says it looks like Saudi journalist is dead
“MbS had no knowledge of this specific operation and certainly did not order a kidnapping or murder of anybody. He will have been aware of the general instruction to tell people to come back,” the official said.

The official said the whereabouts of Khashoggi’s body were unclear after it was handed over to a “local cooperator” but there was no sign of it at the consulate.

The public prosecutor’s statement did not specify where the operatives had put Khashoggi’s body or if they plan to inform the Turks. The Saudi official told Reuters, “We don’t know for certain what happened to the body.”

Saudi critics said it was obvious the authorities didn’t want to hand over Khashoggi’s body as it would reveal how badly he was tortured.

In Istanbul, Turkish prosecutors investigating Khashoggi’s disappearance questioned Turkish employees of the Saudi consulate on Friday. Turkish police searched a forest on Istanbul’s outskirts and a city near the Sea of Marmara for Khashoggi’s remains, two senior Turkish officials told Reuters.

Khashoggi’s Turkish fiancee, Hatice Cengiz, tweeted in Arabic: “The heart grieves, the eye tears, and with your separation we are saddened, my dear Jamal,” she said, also asking “#where is martyr Khashoggi’s body?”
Fuckin amatuer hour over there. You'd think they've never killed anyone before with this giant fuckup. And fuckin LOL at all the Trump supporters I saw saying this was all liberal lies to get us into war with Saudi Arabia. Jesus christ. They will never hold him accountable for literally anything and blame anyone and everyone they can to avoid it.
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Unread 2018-10-21, 12:57 PM   #10
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Is there anyone here to have an actual discussion on this topic besides Oblique shitting crazy all over it 24/7?
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Unread 2018-10-21, 07:47 PM   #11
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Dude. Go suck a dick. A really small one that disappoints you.

Posting relevant articles is shitting crazy all over the place? Just block me if I trigger you so much.
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Unread 2018-10-22, 07:32 AM   #12
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Is there anyone here to have an actual discussion on this topic besides Oblique shitting crazy all over it 24/7?
What, you don't want to get in a discussion with this guy \/

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Maybe that's why I've been noticing a lot of references to islands lately... Red and white roses too, mostly white ones. ..... I've been fixated on volcanoes too and that one kind of worries me.

...... We live in a series of math equations.
I have mixed feelings about the Kashoggi murder. The new Saudi Prince is trying to westernize the country and get them out of the radical Isalm that they have. Kashoggi was a voice for radical Islam, the 19 hijackers on 9/11 and such.

They wanted to silence him so they could move forward with their Westernization but Kashoggi kept stirring the radical Islam pot.

It's a shame they did it this way because this will set them back on their progress toward Westernization and getting away from radical Islam.

It's a shame the Saudi government doesn't have the fawning media that the Dems have here, there would be no issue with Westernization.
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Unread 2018-10-23, 11:29 AM   #13
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I have mixed feelings about the Kashoggi murder. The new Saudi Prince is trying to westernize the country and get them out of the radical Isalm that they have. Kashoggi was a voice for radical Islam, the 19 hijackers on 9/11 and such.

They wanted to silence him so they could move forward with their Westernization but Kashoggi kept stirring the radical Islam pot.

It's a shame they did it this way because this will set them back on their progress toward Westernization and getting away from radical Islam.

It's a shame the Saudi government doesn't have the fawning media that the Dems have here, there would be no issue with Westernization.
Wow. You're further gone than I thought. We're talking about murder and cover-up (a terribly executed one at that) by a major government. The fact that you're buying into this terrorism ties nonsense and mildly rationalizing his murder is astounding.

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Unread 2018-10-23, 12:03 PM   #14
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Wow. You're further gone than I thought. We're talking about murder and cover-up (a terribly executed one at that) by a major government. The fact that you're buying into this terrorism ties nonsense and mildly rationalizing his murder is astounding.
Dude, where have you been? This new right wing is composed of the chemtrail kids and anit-vaxxers combined.
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Unread 2018-10-23, 12:06 PM   #15
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Dude, where have you been? This new right wing is composed of the chemtrail kids and anit-vaxxers combined.
By using 'dude', are you implying this living organism's gender? How dare you. Get woke. Stay in-tune with your party. Don't you have some riot to attend or safe space to establish?
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Unread 2018-10-23, 12:06 PM   #16
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Are you implying this living organisms gender? How dare you. Get woke. Stay in-tune with your party.
I get it you are a fucking tool and all but what is MY party?
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Unread 2018-10-23, 12:08 PM   #17
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I get it you are a fucking tool and all but what is MY party?
I added to it.
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Unread 2018-10-23, 12:10 PM   #18
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Wow. You're further gone than I thought. We're talking about murder and cover-up (a terribly executed one at that) by a major government. The fact that you're buying into this terrorism ties nonsense and mildly rationalizing his murder is astounding.
He's just keeping his feelings mixed until he sees how Trump responds and what the talking points are then he'll know how to feel.

The terrorism ties nonsense are just the talking points in case Trump goes one way. When he goes the other way he'll drop that and be all aboard the new talking points.
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Unread 2018-10-23, 12:25 PM   #19
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Wow. You're further gone than I thought. We're talking about murder and cover-up (a terribly executed one at that) by a major government. The fact that you're buying into this terrorism ties nonsense and mildly rationalizing his murder is astounding.
I'm not rationalizing murder, I don't agree with it. Unlike the Dems sweeping the whole Bengazi thing under the rug. I never saw your outrage at Americans being murdered.

I do agree we need them as allies.

But let me hear your outrage at the murder that occurs everyday in Iran, Russia and other countries that you profess to like.
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Unread 2018-10-23, 12:30 PM   #20
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I added to it.
So just a fucking tool then, without even an actual statement or a question.

This is where we are at with these people. Its not about discourse. Its the chem-trail idiots turned right-wing conspiracy nuts. You have your conclusion and basically everything has to point to that else its "fake news" or "safe space."
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Unread 2018-10-23, 12:49 PM   #21
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I don’t think what most (rational) people were looking for in Benghazi was ever murder.

There was an uprising in a foreign government which resulted in deaths of Americans. What people were - or should have been looking for - was responsibility for those deaths. Negligence.

This was murder. Possibly premeditated, but at the very least it sounds like he was taken somewhere in the embassy to be “disposed” of - and from all speculation dismembered.

Edit - In order to call Benghazi murder, I think you would need to look for who instigated the uprising...
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Unread 2018-10-23, 01:26 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JewelsMari View Post

Edit - In order to call Benghazi murder, I think you would need to look for who instigated the uprising...
The people who Kashoggi was writing for. He did go to school with Bin Laden and preached the same radical Islam.
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Unread 2018-10-23, 01:50 PM   #23
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Which has what to do with here? You wanted to go after Hilary for murder. Are you saying Kashoggi was writing for her? And are you saying that it justifies his murder?

Because up there you just said it shouldn’t.. so maybe you should get your story straight.


Yeah Scooby... I saw your post.. I know.
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Unread 2018-10-23, 04:01 PM   #24
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I’m curious... where is this info coming from that he supported radical Islam?

Because this is from Wikipedia- and since these are supposed to be quotes from articles he wrote... I’m a little confused...

Quote:
Political views on democracy and Muslim Brotherhood
Khashoggi wrote in a Post column on 3 April 2018 that Saudi Arabia "should return to its pre-1979 climate, when the government restricted hard-line Wahhabi traditions. Women today should have the same rights as men. And all citizens should have the right to speak their minds without fear of imprisonment."[23] He also said that Saudis "must find a way where we can accommodate secularism and Islam, something like what they have in Turkey."[24] In a posthumous (17 October 201 article, "What the Arab world needs most is free expression", Khashoggi described the hopes of Arab world press freedom during the Arab Spring and his hope that an Arab world free press independent from national governments would develop so that "ordinary people in the Arab world would be able to address the structural problems their societies face."[25]

In the Post, he criticized the Saudi Arabian-led blockade against Qatar, Saudi Arabia's dispute with Lebanon,[23] Saudi Arabia's diplomatic dispute with Canada, and the Kingdom's crackdown on dissent and media.[26] Khashoggi supported some of Crown Prince's reforms, like allowing women to drive,[27] but he condemned Saudi Arabia's arrest of Loujain al-Hathloul, who was ranked third in the list of "Top 100 Most Powerful Arab Women 2015", Eman al-Nafjan, Aziza al-Yousef, and several other women's rights advocates involved in the women to drive movement and the anti male-guardianship campaign.[23]
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Unread 2018-10-23, 04:11 PM   #25
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I've literally been pointing out how delusional Trump supporters are for months and repeatedly said there would be no limits to which they would sink to defend him. You all finally getting it now that someone else besides me is saying the same thing for once? Remember when bowing to a Saudi was akin to treason? Obama remembers.

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