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Unread 2017-09-27, 02:30 PM   #1
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Default Trump tax plan to remove state and local tax deductions

Damn. This would be huge impact on high tax areas. With the almost doubled standard deduction we'd come out on top here, but NY and other high tax states would get hit hard, especially for high earners. But, since that only effect high income earners most, this should be ok with the left wing, right? I'm just waiting for the high earners on the left to come out and spin this hugely negative, ignoring the standard deduction increase.

I still want to see the upper level tax rates fixed from our current progressive to middle class, and then regressive towards the top (as a percentage of capital gains income increases). "They" are saying they're working on a plan to stop this abuse, but I'll believe it when I see it.

http://nypost.com/2017/09/27/trump-t...gh-tax-states/
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Unread 2017-09-27, 02:43 PM   #2
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I am concerned about the corporate tax rate getting almost halved and that he wants to eliminate the estate tax. Also, I don't understand enough to know what the implications are of his plan to lower tax rates for business owners who's income is also considered the businesses profits...

I am interested to see where the new, simplified tax brackets end up (12, 25, 35).

I am also very interested in how it will be paid for.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 03:11 PM   #3
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Thes estate tax is BS.

That money has already been taxed.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 03:19 PM   #4
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I am concerned about the corporate tax rate getting almost halved
Corporations don't pay taxes, they collect them from the consumer. Cutting the corporate tax will reduce the cost for products we buy. Corporate taxes hurt the poor the most since they spend a higher percentage of their income on necessities such as food and house-hold items.

It will be paid for by the increase in taxes collected. When Regan cut taxes, revenue to the government almost doubled.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 03:48 PM   #5
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I am concerned about the corporate tax rate getting almost halved and that he wants to eliminate the estate tax. Also, I don't understand enough to know what the implications are of his plan to lower tax rates for business owners who's income is also considered the businesses profits...

I am interested to see where the new, simplified tax brackets end up (12, 25, 35).

I am also very interested in how it will be paid for.
I'm not that concerned about the corporate tax, as corporations don't pay tax (consumers pay corporate tax). The estate tax I'm on the fence (if we keep our current income based tax system, which I'm in favor of getting rid of all together).
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Unread 2017-09-27, 04:04 PM   #6
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Corporations don't pay taxes, they collect them from the consumer. Cutting the corporate tax will reduce the cost for products we buy. Corporate taxes hurt the poor the most since they spend a higher percentage of their income on necessities such as food and house-hold items.
yes, because that's how capitalism has ever worked. those companies are going to reduce prices for consumers because the taxes they already don't pay due to loopholes are going down... they won't keep the prices that they've already conditioned consumers to pay the same and simply pocket the revenues so their share prices go up... definitely not.
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It will be paid for by the increase in taxes collected. When Regan cut taxes, revenue to the government almost doubled.
you REALLY need to do more research...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.34e97dd838b6
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... "Contrary to the claims of voodoo, the government’s budget numbers show that tax receipts expanded from $517 billion in 1980 to $909 billion in 1988 — close to a 75 percent change (25 percent after inflation),” Moore wrote.

We checked the historical records of the White House budget office, and those numbers are right. But it’s devoid of important context.

First of all, revenues as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP), which is the best way to compare across years, dropped from 19.1 percent in 1981 to a low of 16.9 percent in 1984, before rebounding slightly to 17.8 percent in 1989. One reason the deficit soared during Reagan’s term is because spending went up as a share of the economy and revenues went down.

But we can get even more specific about the impact of the 1981 cut in rates. A Treasury Department study on the impact of tax bills since 1940, first released in 2006 and later updated, found that the 1981 tax cut reduced revenues by $208 billion in its first four years. (These figures are rendered in constant 2012 dollars.) The tax reform act of 1986, which was designed to be revenue neutral, reduced revenues by less than $1 billion four years after enactment.

But Reagan’s tax increases in 1982, 1983, 1984 and 1987 boosted revenue by $137 billion. Overall, that’s a revenue loss from Reagan’s various tax bills, but it also shows that Moore is crediting to Reagan’s tax cuts revenues generated by Reagan’s tax increases.
...
repeat after me... the Tax Fairy is no more real than the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus.... tax cuts DO NOT PAY FOR THEMSELVES. no matter how much you wish it were so, that is a simple fact borne out by any rational examination of history and context.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 04:51 PM   #7
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yes, because that's how capitalism has ever worked. those companies are going to reduce prices for consumers because the taxes they already don't pay due to loopholes are going down...
He's talking about corporate tax rates. What did Reagan do to corporate taxes (including payroll taxes)? Corporate taxes are a pass-through cost. Basic econ.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 05:11 PM   #8
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Corporate taxes are one of the biggest sources of taxes in the us, as are income taxes. Slashing both, where is that money made up? That's a HUGE sum of money that Trump is talking about reducing, it's not peanuts. If he can balance it without hurting social programs or education or science, id be willing to listen
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Unread 2017-09-27, 05:28 PM   #9
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Corporate taxes are one of the biggest sources of taxes in the us, as are income taxes. Slashing both, where is that money made up? That's a HUGE sum of money that Trump is talking about reducing, it's not peanuts. If he can balance it without hurting social programs or education or science, id be willing to listen
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Unread 2017-09-27, 05:35 PM   #10
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Ya, cutting corporate tax by almost half is a ton of money. Especially considering he is cutting income tax too.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 05:42 PM   #11
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Ya, cutting corporate tax by almost half is a ton of money. Especially considering he is cutting income tax too.
Just remember cutting a rate in half does not mean revenue in half.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 06:39 PM   #12
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I'm saying I'm concerned with how he is going to pay for this. That's the bottom line. Any way you slice this, it's not balanced, so he is going to have to make pretty massive cuts to current programs to even come close to breaking even.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 09:29 PM   #13
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Pay for it? He's leaving that up to our incredibly effective congress. Nothing will come of this. All talk as usual with the Cheeto.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 10:56 PM   #14
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Pay for it? He's leaving that up to our incredibly effective congress. Nothing will come of this. All talk as usual with the Cheeto.
Racist.
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Unread 2017-09-27, 11:16 PM   #15
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I'm saying I'm concerned with how he is going to pay for this. That's the bottom line. Any way you slice this, it's not balanced, so he is going to have to make pretty massive cuts to current programs to even come close to breaking even.
I’d like to see the numbers. On the surface, removing the estate tax doesn’t sound like a good idea, I like the idea of removing deductions, I want to see more loopholes closed, I’d like to see capital gains taxes as regular income (never going to happen under dem or rep rule), and readjuat the brackets to be revenue neutral.
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Unread 2017-09-28, 07:13 AM   #16
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No, I agree. I want to see the numbers.. I am just not optimistic about it because I just can't see how that money is going to be made up.
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Unread 2017-09-28, 08:36 AM   #17
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Why are you bros for an estate tax?

Why keep taxing over and over? It just seems inherently unfair to me.
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Unread 2017-09-28, 09:04 AM   #18
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Why are you bros for an estate tax?

Why keep taxing over and over? It just seems inherently unfair to me.
Jealous of the rich.

On the death tax the politicians always like to point to the very wealthy when in actuality it is the middle class that gets hit the hardest. There are a lot of people in the middle class who pass on $1M+ to their kids.
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Unread 2017-09-28, 09:10 AM   #19
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Jealous of the rich.

On the death tax the politicians always like to point to the very wealthy when in actuality it is the middle class that gets hit the hardest. There are a lot of people in the middle class who pass on $1M+ to their kids.
Yes.

I could see maybe some adjustment, but even $5m isn't what it used to be. Life changing money, for sure. And probably able to keep generations from having to actually rely on work to make ends meet.
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Unread 2017-09-28, 09:14 AM   #20
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Why are you bros for an estate tax?

Why keep taxing over and over? It just seems inherently unfair to me.
It's not much different than me taking my taxed money and hiring a contractor, paying him with my taxed money, then him (or her) having to pay tax on that money as income. If anything, the estate tax is rather generous, because if it were anyone else you gave that money to, they'd have to pay income tax on it.

It's just another problem that comes from our income based tax system, and just another reason why I support getting away from an income based system to a consumption based system.
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Unread 2017-09-28, 09:18 AM   #21
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Yes.

I could see maybe some adjustment, but even $5m isn't what it used to be. Life changing money, for sure. And probably able to keep generations from having to actually rely on work to make ends meet.
My understanding is because, at that level, it's considered income for the inheritor... it's similar to a gift tax. You can't gift your buddy $10million dollars tax free. The person receiving that money is taxed on it.

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Jealous of the rich.

On the death tax the politicians always like to point to the very wealthy when in actuality it is the middle class that gets hit the hardest. There are a lot of people in the middle class who pass on $1M+ to their kids.
The estate tax only applies if the estate is $6million or more.
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Unread 2017-09-28, 11:28 AM   #22
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There are a lot of people in the middle class who pass on $1M+ to their kids.
http://time.com/money/4444752/how-ma...ate-death-tax/
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...While calling it a death tax suggests that the estates of all people who die will be taxed, the reality is that given that the size of the exemption, very few Americans are affected. According to a 2015 report from Congress's Joint Committee on Taxation, 4,700 estate tax returns reporting tax liability were filed in 2013, out of 2.6 million total deaths in the United States. That means the estate tax hits roughly 0.2% of Americans, or 1 out of every 500 people who die.
...
yeah, lots of middle class families find themselves in the 0.2%... I mean, that's obviously the middle class by definition...


for anyone that's interested in a factual discussion devoid of the emotional nonsense that you typically hear about the estate tax:
https://www.cbpp.org/research/federa...ral-estate-tax
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Unread 2017-09-28, 11:47 AM   #23
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My understanding is because, at that level, it's considered income for the inheritor... it's similar to a gift tax. You can't gift your buddy $10million dollars tax free. The person receiving that money is taxed on it.



The estate tax only applies if the estate is $6million or more.
The problem I have is that the money has already been taxed. P
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Unread 2017-09-28, 11:50 AM   #24
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The problem I have is that the money has already been taxed. P
all money has already been taxed. multiple times.
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Unread 2017-09-28, 11:56 AM   #25
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The problem I have is that the money has already been taxed. P
It hasn't been taxed with the person receiving the money, though. It's not a tax being paid by the dead person, but the person receiving the inheritance.
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