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Unread 2013-10-17, 09:31 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Scooby24 View Post
Just an interesting illustration of the ridiculous cost of care.

A suture at one of our hospitals has a cost to the hospital of 20 bucks. That's a piece of thread and a needle sterilized in a paper bag that costs the hospital 20 dollars.

How much would you think the hospital charges for that suture? 20% markup? 25 bucks or so?

Nope. 100 dollars. That's a 400% markup. That's what they have to do to make a reasonable profit when averaged out across all the times it's used and isn't able to be reimbursed for it.

So if you have insurance, your insurance gets to pay for that (or perhaps negotiate down some) highly inflated cost due to other non-insured folks.

Yes your premiums will go up to support other folks premiums. But when that suture gets reimbursed for the majority of patients, the cost will go down. It's not going to go down until the majority of patients are insured. It's a cause an effect. Premiums will be up high for awhile. The cause is folks will then be insured. The effect is the prices in hospitals can go down, the insurances will pay less and the effect is your premiums will eventually go down.

It might not ever be pre-aca again....but if the endgame is to reduce the overall cost of care to the point MOST people can afford health insurance and MOST people are able to get healthcare, I consider it a win. Yeah, more might come out of my pocket. But if we can advance the industry, that will benefit me in the long term. So is it really a bad thing?
That is assuming that a vast majority of the healthy/younger crowd gets healthcare and buys in. If it is only the sick, those with pre-existing conditions, or if people wait until they are sick, I am guessing it will fail miserably.

One of the biggest issues, is that it is a program that gets subsidized at tax time. So we are going to have a lot of people that can't afford (or are not responsible), but are expected to pay for health care for a year, then only get their subsidy when it comes to pay or get a tax return. I don't see that happening for a majority. For many, it will be cheaper and more reasonable to take the fine until they get sick, then buy in at that time.

I also don't care for all of the exemptions. Congress and big business does not have to do it. Why is it good enough for everyone buy big $$$ and those who came up with it?

The last thing I have time for right now, is that I think it will put a bigger burden on the health care system as a whole. Finding a good doctor is difficult and getting in to see one is even harder. Do you want to be told that you are going to need to wait 3 weeks to see a physician? I think that they are going to have to revamp laws to increase the capacity (mainly with nurses, pharmacists, etc.) to keep it somewhat reasonable.

In short, I see it as less affordable with worse care. I don't think that this was thought through very well.
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Unread 2013-10-17, 10:27 AM   #127
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I also don't care for all of the exemptions. Congress and big business does not have to do it. Why is it good enough for everyone buy big $$$ and those who came up with it?
all federal employees (not just congress) get their health insurance through a sort of exchange system that's already been in place forever. just like i will keep getting my health insurance through my employer. this 'obamacare' exchange deal will only be used by people who don't already have insurance.
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Unread 2013-10-17, 10:31 AM   #128
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How many people in your company?
We have 12 currently. BTW, we are in the works with our insurance company to lock in a new 1 year plan that starts Dec. 31st, that will buy us a year at more traditional rates.
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Unread 2013-10-17, 10:40 AM   #129
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I'm sorry but wtf? you're seeing an 85% increase in cost? something is either up with the information they're giving you now or you guys were in some kind of a system glitch/sweetheart deal before.
Yup time to shop around...
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Unread 2013-10-17, 10:50 AM   #130
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We have 12 currently. BTW, we are in the works with our insurance company to lock in a new 1 year plan that starts Dec. 31st, that will buy us a year at more traditional rates.
Who do you use? If you are less tan 50 people, you are exempt from ACA standards. I just went through our info and we use Coventry (we employ about 25 people) and our rates actually went down .1% from last year.

Not all insurance companies are in on the exchanges - it looks to me like only non-profits (like BCBS) are signing up. I am wondering if the for profits are staying out of it and are able to offer similar to pre ACA rates to some businesses since they are not taking on everybody.
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Unread 2013-10-18, 11:44 AM   #131
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Thought this was fitting.

More takers for one-way trip to Mars than for Obamacare

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2465661/More-takers-way-trip-Mars-Obamacare-state-spending-12-000-far-attract-new-insurance-customer-Is-worst-launch-ever.html?ico=ushome^headlines
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Unread 2013-10-18, 09:36 PM   #132
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What I know is this.
This thing will swing one way, then the other after.

First, prices are going up, huge hikes all around. Why because insurance companies are going to have to foot the bill on pre existing conditions, but lets face it, we are already paying for these people in one way or another, rather its unpaid ER visits, loss of productivity or whatever.

After enough people are on it and hospitals can start charging non absurd amounts because they dont have over 50% of the bills going to collections it will start going down.

How long will this take? who knows.
So far, my insurance in unphased. I am a 28yo male with wife and 7 yo child, we pay $340 a month for a $2000 a year deductible. That is affordable and I love it, if it goes up, oh well. People get selfish at the fact it might cost them money, I have family members who work hard, contribute to society and have pre existing conditions that can not get medical insurance, now they can, if I have to pay a bit more thats fine by me. Someday my kid may have issues that would of caused her to lose insurance and been screwed, now I don't have to worry about her ending up in that situation.
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Unread 2013-10-19, 03:19 PM   #133
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According to this, 17 million hits, only 20,000 actually enrolled (estimated).

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Unread 2013-10-22, 05:12 PM   #134
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Super Bowl champ Baltimore Ravens getting paid $130,000 to promote Obamacare

http://washingtonexaminer.com/super-...rticle/2537602

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Despite a decision by the NFL to ignore the administration's pleas to promote Obamacare, the Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens have decided to go all in -- in exchange for a $130,000 contract, according to documents unearthed by a public watchdog group.

Judicial Watch told Secrets that the team was recruited by Maryland state officials to help it sell Obamacare, the new health care insurance program that has run into mammoth computer and bureaucratic troubles in its first three weeks.

The state previously announced its plans but the size of the check was not released. Judicial Watch received a copy of the agreement between the 2013 football champs and the Maryland Health Benefit Exchange.

Below is the release from Judicial Watch:

The professional football team that won this year’s Super Bowl is getting $130,000 from American taxpayers to promote Obamacare, according to documents obtained by Judicial Watch this week.

The deal was secured on September 9 between the Baltimore Ravens of the National Football League (NFL) and Maryland health officials. The White House has tried recruiting professional sports leagues — especially the NFL and the National Basketball Association (NBA) — to help promote the president’s healthcare law but they have declined.

In fact, the NFL confirmed months ago that it would not participate in the Obamacare public relations campaign, offering the media this written statement: “We have responded to the letters we received from members of Congress to inform them we currently have no plans to engage in this area and have had no substantive contact with the administration about [the health-care law’s] implementation.” Washington D.C.’s mainstream newspaper called it a “blow to the administration.”

But Maryland officials evidently appealed directly to the home team, announcing in early September that the Ravens would help market the state’s Obamacare exchange known as Maryland Health Connection. Both parties refused to offer specifics when the deal was initiated and Judicial Watch filed a Maryland Public Information Act request for details.

In a “Sponsorship Agreement” between the Maryland Health Connection and the Ravens, the state will pay the Super Bowl champs $130,000 to push Obamacare on television, radio, the team’s official website, its newsletter and in social media. This includes the Ravens Report Show on cable TV and a number of pre and post-game radio segments as well as Facebook and Twitter plugs.
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Unread 2013-10-23, 04:03 PM   #135
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What will the administration think of next to peddle this failure?



http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...ning-obamacare
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Unread 2013-10-23, 04:09 PM   #136
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This is laughable.

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Unread 2013-10-23, 04:11 PM   #137
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wow a team valued in the hundreds of millions took $130k from their home STATE to promote a program. let's blow the whistles and sound the alarm.
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Unread 2013-10-23, 04:12 PM   #138
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This is laughable.

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thanks for letting me watch fox news while i'm on kcsr.
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Unread 2013-10-23, 04:15 PM   #139
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thanks for letting me watch fox news while i'm on kcsr.
Anytime. You buy your brosurance yet?
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Unread 2013-10-26, 12:50 AM   #140
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Edit: Wonder if this is true. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...care-gov-cost/

Funny how the company that won the no-bid contract has been in bed with the Obama administration, I think CGI was invited to several private meetings before they were granted the contract. Michelle graduated with the VP of CGI Federal, wonder if that had anything to do with it. Also interesting that CGI had contracts up in Canada
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Also, I have shitty health coverage, BCBS, but I only pay 114 a month for medical and dental.

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Unread 2013-10-26, 01:17 AM   #141
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Funny how the website was supposed to cost 93 million, but is at something shy of 700 million. Also funny how the company that won the no-bid contract has been in bed with the Obama administration, I think CGI was invited to several private meetings before they were granted the contract. Michelle graduated with the VP of CGI Federal, wonder if that had anything to do with it.

Anddddd I"m sure that website will end up costing a BILLION fucking dollars by the time they have to re-do it and update it.
funny how you are completely and absolutely wrong on the cost?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...care-gov-cost/
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A conservative figure would be $70 million. A more modest figure would be $125 million to $150 million.
funny how your absolute certitude that you know that it cost that much shows a lack of information outside of right-wing sources?
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10...website/196585

funny how this nepotism you're charging as a basis for the contract is fuzzy at best?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/stevefriess/...ted-heavily-to
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according to Federal Election Commission records, that company’s PAC gave more to House Republicans than House Democrats during the 2012 cycle — including a $2,000 check for the GOP’s chief scandal investigator, Oversight Committee Chair Darrell Issa. What’s more, executives of CGI Federal personally gave more than twice as much to GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney than to President Obama. The contractor has also feasted on more than $2.4 billion worth of IT work dating back to the early Bush Administration.
I'm new to this game but I think I'm doing it right...


feel free to complain about a $70-150M website. there are gigantic hurdles that few can fully appreciate but that sounds fucking asinine as it is (initial reaction from me). but at least have your facts straight before bitching about something.


edit: funny how while I was typing that out you found the WaPo editor article on your own?
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Unread 2013-10-26, 01:30 AM   #142
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Yea, I noticed where that where that information was coming from wasn't exactly right and kept searching. More interesting history of CGI: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ealthcare-gov/

However, I remember reading (can't find the link), of CGI trying to set up something just like this under another contract and they were dropped or couldn't provide the product. I wonder if that is true or more false reporting.
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Unread 2013-10-26, 01:37 AM   #143
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In other news...

Aliens.
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Unread 2013-10-26, 02:54 AM   #144
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How does a fucking website cost $70 million dollars
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Unread 2013-10-26, 03:04 PM   #145
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How does a fucking website cost $70 million dollars
There's been a lot of numbers thrown around, all of them are absurd.

For anyone that still thinks Obamacare is worth more than the paper it was printed on:

It's a system built on Subsidies, which is why they are desperately trying to get young people to sign up and offset the costs of the sick/pre existing conditions, elderly, and finally the massive Medicaid sign ups.

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Unread 2013-10-26, 11:27 PM   #146
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There's been a lot of numbers thrown around, all of them are absurd.

For anyone that still thinks Obamacare is worth more than the paper it was printed on:

It's a system built on Subsidies, which is why they are desperately trying to get young people to sign up and offset the costs of the sick/pre existing conditions, elderly, and finally the massive Medicaid sign ups.

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Video URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlQcDYlO2-U
Of COURSE it's a system of subsidies dude. That's all our country has turned into. One damn hand out after another. Doesn't matter what it's for, there's a handout for that.

It's worse than the "There's an App for that". It should now be advertised as, "There's a handout for that".
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Unread 2013-10-27, 10:26 AM   #147
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feel free to complain about a $70-150M website. there are gigantic hurdles that few can fully appreciate but that sounds fucking asinine as it is (initial reaction from me). but at least have your facts straight before bitchin...

What gigantic hurdles are you talking about?


Drives me nuts when people defend the website and state that people have no idea or appreciation for what it takes to build a website like this. Don't be retarded, we live in the digital age with thousands of massive websites. The Obamacare portal shouldn't have cost more than around a million dollars to produce by a private company. The servers to support its demand already exist and software could have expanded/contracted to more or less servers depending on user demand. This is not rocket science, it's standard practice. Stop pretending that building a website to process data is a new venture that no one understands.
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Unread 2013-10-27, 12:11 PM   #148
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What gigantic hurdles are you talking about?


Drives me nuts when people defend the website and state that people have no idea or appreciation for what it takes to build a website like this. Don't be retarded, we live in the digital age with thousands of massive websites. The Obamacare portal shouldn't have cost more than around a million dollars to produce by a private company. The servers to support its demand already exist and software could have expanded/contracted to more or less servers depending on user demand. This is not rocket science, it's standard practice. Stop pretending that building a website to process data is a new venture that no one understands.
they are trying to create a secure portal for hundreds/thousands of insurers to be able to get information from millions of users across 36 states that is verified against almost a dozen federal agency databases, produce information back to the user, calculate subsidies, etc.

its probably the largest undertaking that has been done on the internet. public or private.

bear in mind that this was done by a private company. a private company is the one that has supposedly written 150x the amount of code that when into the Mars Rover that flew itself to Mars, landed and is now reporting data back to us. they were the one's that estimated the cost and the requirements and set it at least 70x the amount you're saying it could've been done for by what I can only imagine to be another private company...

again, I'm not trying to defend the $70-150M number, it sounds ridicilous to me but to pretend like it could be done for a $1M or it isn't hugely complex is moronic.
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Unread 2013-10-27, 12:52 PM   #149
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For the love of god Phreakdna.....


Get the obama administrations hairy cock out of your mouth. It's penetrating so deep it's putting pressure on your brain, and causing massive hemorrhaging, causing you to defend this said massive hairy cock clean until your death.


Back away while you still can. Your life is at stake
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Unread 2013-10-28, 09:05 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWorstNightmare View Post
For the love of god Phreakdna.....

Get the obama administrations hairy cock out of your mouth. It's penetrating so deep it's putting pressure on your brain, and causing massive hemorrhaging, causing you to defend this said massive hairy cock clean until your death.

Back away while you still can. Your life is at stake
so because I recognize something as extremely complex means that I have a cock in my mouth?

when something is complex its going to cost more - but I didn't even try to defend the cost, just pointing out how ridiculous his number was while still saying I thought the actual cost was too high.

if that's dick riding then I have no concept of how to begin to describe your reflexive, unwavering and completely blind hatred of anything remotely progressive/obsession with anything conservative...

I didn't say the site was good, that it was competent, etc. I said while I thought it cost too much, the idea that it could've been done for $1M was idiotic (and I've got a decent idea as part of my job is project management for a website that does reporting for billions of dollars of retirement assets each year) and that his implication that a private company could've done it cheaper was without value since it was bid and done by a private company with dozens of private subcontractors.
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Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ”all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except negroes” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.” When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocricy. - Lincoln

Last edited by phreakdna; 2013-10-28 at 09:07 AM..
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