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Unread 2014-05-09, 10:31 AM   #126
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And? Still doesn't make the analogy any less true.
I get what you're trying to say. But just because most of the population gets distracted when they see a shiny new thing and thinks it's awesome, doesn't make it right or better.

Oh look, a pony.........
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Unread 2014-05-09, 10:39 AM   #127
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And? Still doesn't make the analogy any less true.
Your analogy is horribly off base.

Apple users are all about having the newest, shiniest iThing when it comes out. It doesn't matter that the new iThing does not provide any real advantages over the old iThing. They desire change purely for the sake of change, and being hip / fresh / new.

That sounds just like the reasoning behind the "need" for building a new $1.2 billion single terminal.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 10:40 AM   #128
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Efficiency isn't having more people than necessary to do a job.

Getting through security quickly does not make it efficient.
It makes it more efficient for the traveler!

Besides, I thought more jobs was a good thing?
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Unread 2014-05-09, 10:46 AM   #129
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Efficiency isn't having more people than necessary to do a job.

Getting through security quickly does not make it efficient.
You're just looking at the money aspect. You're not looking at the time aspect. Could 3 people get all the checkpoints done eventually? Yup. What about the customer service aspect of it? I know I'm pissed when I have to stand in line for a fucking hour just to get through a checkpoint.

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Unread 2014-05-09, 10:52 AM   #130
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You're just looking at the money aspect. You're not looking at the time aspect. Could 3 people get all the checkpoints done eventually? Yup. What about the customer service aspect of it? I know I'm pissed when I have to stand in line for a fucking hour just to get through a checkpoint.

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I think you're thinking of efficiency wrong. Both examples are not efficient.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 10:55 AM   #131
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It makes it more efficient for the traveler!

Besides, I thought more jobs was a good thing?
To be honest, it still isn't efficient. I've been through security in smaller and larger airports faster than at MCI.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 11:24 AM   #132
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To be honest, it still isn't efficient. I've been through security in smaller and larger airports faster than at MCI.
Anecdotal evidence does not prove anything.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 11:27 AM   #133
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Anecdotal evidence does not prove anything.
Neither does anything anyone has posted in this thread. We honestly won't know how it all plays out until the damn thing is actually built. We can moan and complain all we want on both sides, but the fact is we do not know anything for certain.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 01:10 PM   #134
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Neither does anything anyone has posted in this thread. We honestly won't know how it all plays out until the damn thing is actually built. We can moan and complain all we want on both sides, but the fact is we do not know anything for certain.
And that's part of the problem. The city seems to want to run off of a Field of Dreams mentality. If we build it, they will come. And it's bullshit. If they wanted to be here, then they would be. And we would have a cluster fuck of an airport like San Diego has. That's a place that NEEDS a new airport. And they won't build it to save the trees.......or some shit.

In order for it to make a new to me, we NEED to have it. We don't NEED it. Sly just wants his name out front on I-29.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 01:13 PM   #135
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I think you're thinking of efficiency wrong. Both examples are not efficient.
I'm not saying MCI is the most efficient. Not by any means. Not even close. I'm saying what we have could be better given the right management and organization. And it wouldn't cost us a billion fucking dollars for a shiny new airport.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 02:01 PM   #136
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Neither does anything anyone has posted in this thread. We honestly won't know how it all plays out until the damn thing is actually built.
We won't know what's in it until we build it.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 02:19 PM   #137
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We won't know what's in it until we build it.
You know what I mean.

We can plan, plan and plan but it takes putting it to use to really figure out how people are going to use something. The updated US-69/I-35 North merge point is a good example of this. The design is good, but the people who use it are idiots. However, creating a barrier to keep people from merging early would fix that issue.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 02:27 PM   #138
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You know what I mean.

We can plan, plan and plan but it takes putting it to use to really figure out how people are going to use something. The updated US-69/I-35 North merge point is a good example of this. The design is good, but the people who use it are idiots. However, creating a barrier to keep people from merging early would fix that issue.


I always wondered why this wasn't already in place. It would be a huuuuuuuuuuge help.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 03:02 PM   #139
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I always wondered why this wasn't already in place. It would be a huuuuuuuuuuge help.
Problem now is there isn't any room to fix it. They'd need to add shoulders on both the US-69 and I-35 side of the jersey barrier and they can't. It would take an adjustment to all the lanes to move them over a bit and I doubt they want to do it. Sooo, we're stuck with the problem.

THIS is what it should look like:



All the US-69 traffic should have merged into one lane before meeting up with I-35. The best method would be to keep that one merged lane as a continued lane on I-35, but they'd have to replace the 75th St bridge to do that.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 07:58 PM   #140
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MCI is NOT efficient. They have more TSA than LaGuardia.
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Efficiency isn't having more people than necessary to do a job.

Getting through security quickly does not make it efficient
.
That's exactly what it means for me and the rest of the passengers/customers. Getting through a necessary task quickly is extremely efficient. It may not be the most cost effective for the airport - but why would I care? They could have one agent (I don't believe they are TSA - IIRC they are a contracted firm that has to meet the same standards) and it would be cost effective, but horribly inefficient. The speed and ease is one of, if not the biggest benefit of the current airport.

Other airports a few years back sent people to KC to see how the agents got people through so quickly.

I get what you are trying to say, but as a customer, all I care about it how efficiently I can use my time and money. If someone can prove that I could get through just as quick for the same price, or less, bring it on. I don't see it happening though.
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Unread 2014-05-09, 09:17 PM   #141
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That is how the new airport will be. So many people complaining right now, but when the new airport is built they'll be singing it's praises.
It didn’t work for Sacramento

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/12/13/599...acramento.html
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Unread 2014-05-09, 09:30 PM   #142
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I dont understand all the bitching about the cost. The money is coming from the Federal Aviation Fund! That money will either be used in KC or it will be used for another airport. Either way the federal tax dollars put into that fund will be used at some airport within the United States, so why not have it used here in KC?
http://flykci.com/_FileLibrary/FileI...ncil4-4-13.pdf
Page 22 – Funding for New Terminal

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Passenger Facility Charges (PFC)
Federal Airport Improvement Grants (AIP)
Airport Revenue Bonds
Airline and Tenant Fees
Terminal Concessions
Parking and Rental Car
So that means you are paying for the Passenger Facility Charges.
The Airlines and other tenants are paying -> their overhead goes up –> so does the cost to you
Terminal Concessions – You pay more
Parking and Rental Car – Parking prices go up and Rental Car agencies have a nice little additional fee.

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As far as, we aren't paying for this goes......I already mentioned it in this thread a while back. If you think the airlines are just going to absorb the costs associated with the new airport, and not pass them down to us......you're delusional. That's not even counting the extra shit like restaurants and gift shops that apparently, some people here have to have.
In the video above – he addressed this. (I think it’s around 15 minutes in.) This is one of the places where he put his own spin on it. He is correct, that you might not pay a higher airfare out of MCI just because it’s more expensive for the airline. They’re going to spread it out across their system, but they’re also going to look at where it is most cost efficient to direct their traffic. Maybe you’ll still have quite a few flights, they just won’t be a desirable option. Connections through other cities where you once had a non-stop. (At which point, you write to the airline and complain.) Meanwhile, there are less connecting passengers going through Kansas City to pay off that debt.

To me, this is like a teenager asking his parents to buy him a BMW, when they can only afford a Focus.
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Unread 2014-05-10, 04:24 PM   #143
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Good thing Kansas City is a better city than Sacramento then.
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Unread 2014-05-10, 05:39 PM   #144
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It didn’t work for Sacramento

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/12/13/599...acramento.html
This is the other one I was thinking of. I don't know if any of you have been there since the new one was built, but it's stupid. Huge airport and it's damn near empty. I go out there several times a year because of a friend. Last time I was out, he had car trouble and I spent 2 hours there waiting. Once down stairs by luggage and passenger pick-up, they were using like 2 of the carousels and there was hardly anybody there. 2 hours and no way I saw 200 people with out counting the cars outside. But man, it sure is shiny. Ignorant to build one thinking everybody will just up and decide to go there because of the new airport. Same shit here.
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Unread 2014-05-10, 06:24 PM   #145
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This is the other one I was thinking of. I don't know if any of you have been there since the new one was built, but it's stupid. Huge airport and it's damn near empty. I go out there several times a year because of a friend. Last time I was out, he had car trouble and I spent 2 hours there waiting. Once down stairs by luggage and passenger pick-up, they were using like 2 of the carousels and there was hardly anybody there. 2 hours and no way I saw 200 people with out counting the cars outside. But man, it sure is shiny. Ignorant to build one thinking everybody will just up and decide to go there because of the new airport. Same shit here.
Not really. According to the article, there are TWO other nearby airports. That was part of the issue. We're the only 'real' airport within several hours each direction.
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Unread 2014-05-10, 08:48 PM   #146
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Not really. According to the article, there are TWO other nearby airports. That was part of the issue. We're the only 'real' airport within several hours each direction.
I haven't read the article, but, the airports around Sacramento are small business or personal type airports. Like the downtown or Johnson county airport here. There isn't any other kind of main airport there. I've spent a lot of time in Sac and never seen any kind of another serious airport. Maybe I am just missing them. I will read the article when I have a chance just in case I am missing something. I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong if I am.
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Unread 2014-05-10, 09:10 PM   #147
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I haven't read the article, but, the airports around Sacramento are small business or personal type airports. Like the downtown or Johnson county airport here. There isn't any other kind of main airport there. I've spent a lot of time in Sac and never seen any kind of another serious airport. Maybe I am just missing them. I will read the article when I have a chance just in case I am missing something. I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong if I am.
I just pulled the Sacramento airport up on Google Maps. No wonder their ridership is down. That design is absolutely horrendous.
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Unread 2014-05-10, 09:27 PM   #148
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I'm not sure what you're talking about either. The two that are first brought up, are the other two in-county airports. As mentioned, comparable to Downtown or Johnson County.

The next closest airports would be the bay area. OAK, SFO, SJC. 1 1/2 - 2 hours away.

To clarify - we aren't discussing passengers choosing to drive to another airport. Yes, they might for a lower fare. We're talking about airlines realizing they can save 500K per year in landing costs by shifting 10 flights a day from here to OMA, STL, ICT. By keeping landing fees, gate and terminal space leases, and overall operating costs for the airline lower than other airports, you're giving them a more attractive option. They then increase their traffic in and out of that airport.

(Dislaimer: I have no idea if 500K is a realistic number for landing fees in a year or not. I would guess that might actually be a low number.)
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Unread 2014-05-10, 09:46 PM   #149
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I just pulled the Sacramento airport up on Google Maps. No wonder their ridership is down. That design is absolutely horrendous.
I don't like the proposed design they currently have for this one.

The front part of the terminal looks weird and congested.

tslave was right when he posted that things would be crammed into a tighter space on the ramp, and airlines would get in each other's way. - Ironically, the video tried to say that happens now. Occasionally, one airline might have to wait a couple of minutes another to get out of the way. They tried to make it sound like it would take 15 minutes for one to get pushed back and gone before another could start.
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Unread 2014-05-12, 11:29 AM   #150
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Just for the record concerning MCI:

I was there this weekend. Flew in on Friday, left on Sunday night.

That airport is fucking TERRIBLE NOW.

TSA has completely ruined that damn place.

It feels cramped, people have to sit on the floor because there's not enough seating, and there's almost zero food & beverage stores available after you go through stupid security.

It's HORRIBLE. It's a claustrophobic cluster-fuck the entire time you're there.

I really hope they figure out something a whole lot better for it.
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