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Unread 2017-11-16, 05:58 PM   #26
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Well I've been saying it for at least 4 years... glad to see the idiots in congress can finally try to do something to save lives, instead of using guns as just a political tool. Props to them if it comes out as described here.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...es-say-n821256

Quote:
WASHINGTON — A bipartisan group of senators Thursday unveiled legislation to improve background-checks for gun sales, a narrow measure that attempts to address the recent spate of mass shootings.

The bill represents an incremental update to existing law but has the best chance of any effort to pass through Congress in recent years, with the weight of support from senior Senate Republicans behind it and no public opposition from the gun lobby.

The bill, crafted by Sens. John Cornyn, R.-Texas, and Chris Murphy, D-Conn., would attempt to better enforce current law and strengthen the National Instant Criminal Background Check system to ensure all background check information is uploaded.

Senators unveil new bipartisan gun control legislation Play Facebook Twitter Embed
Senators unveil new bipartisan gun control legislation 1:33
According to a description of the bill, first obtained by NBC News, the “Fix NICS Act” offers a handful of solutions to help get all the necessary records uploaded, including asking federal agencies and states to produce plans to upload and verify the criminal and mental health records necessary to bar unfit purchasers from buying a weapon.

Because the federal government can't force states to comply with uploading requirements, it creates incentives like grants for states to do so. It also adds accountability measures like withholding political appointees bonuses for agencies that fail to do so. The bill also directs federal funds to ensure that domestic violence crimes are added to the background-check system.

This is the third attempt to fix the background-check reporting system since 1995. The NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 provided millions to encourage the states to improve their data sharing. That was preceded by The National Criminal History Improvement Program, the first effort to give the states an incentive to report more records.

“For years agencies and states haven’t complied with the law, failing to upload these critical records without consequence,” Cornyn said in a statement announcing the effort Thursday. “Just one record that’s not properly reported can lead to tragedy, as the country saw last week in Sutherland Springs, Texas. This bill aims to help fix what’s become a nationwide, systemic problem so we can better prevent criminals and domestic abusers from obtaining firearms.”

“This deal will strengthen the background check system and save lives. Our bill marks an important milestone that shows real compromise can be made on the issue of guns," Murphy added.

Image: Sunday service one week after church shooting
Senator John Cornyn, R-TX, and his wife Sandy Cornyn visit a memorial to the victims of the mass shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, on Nov. 12. R. Tomas Gonzalez / EPA
The National Rifle Association, a powerful gun lobby that gives heavily to elected officials, won't oppose it. “The National Rifle Association has long supported the inclusion of all appropriate records in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System," Jennifer Baker, NRA spokeswoman, told NBC News.

And the National Shooting Sports Foundation has also endorsed, clearing the way for the Senate to move ahead.

Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., and Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C., have also signed onto the bill, as have Sens. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, Dean Heller, R-Nev., and Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H.

Cornyn, Murphy, Blumenthal and Heller are represent states with the most deadly mass shootings: the Sutherland Springs church shooting, Sandy Hook, and the concert massacre in Las Vegas.

Both Murphy, who has advocated for gun control legislation since the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2013, and Blumenthal hinted at an agreement earlier Wednesday on Twitter. Meanwhile, Cornyn, the Senate majority whip, told reporters Sunday, "We need to fix this broken background check system."

The last time gun control legislation came close to passing was after Sandy Hook when Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., and Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., fell four vote shorts of passing their bill to strengthen background checks. Their bill was more expansive than the current one. It would have required background checks for gun purchases at gun shows and online.

The proposed legislation comes as funerals are taking place for 26 churchgoers gunned down in tiny Sutherland Springs, Texas. The shooter's domestic violence conviction should have blocked his purchase of a rifle used in the massacre, but was not submitted to the background check system by the military.
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Unread 2017-11-16, 06:45 PM   #27
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ricerking-what are your thoughts on the "gun show loophole?"
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Unread 2017-11-16, 08:06 PM   #28
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Funny that same topic always comes up on FB
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Unread 2017-11-17, 12:34 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by mild83 View Post
ricerking-what are your thoughts on the "gun show loophole?"
More made up words, to trigger a knee-jerk response.

The true way to describe that, is a ban on private party transactions of personal belongings without paying the government for permission.

It's pretty damn extreme.

Not only is it nearly impossible to enforce without registration... but it would be an extreme overreach of government to say I can't sell my own possessions without their signoff and paying a fee. I mean they can't even get the current background check system to work right... let's add more things to muck it up right?

It gets even stickier, when you look at some states that have tried to ban private sales... and ends banning loaning your gun to a buddy, sharing it while hunting, etc.

Most importantly, it's all for only the appearance of safety. Private party gun transactions are waaaayyyy too expensive for criminals... they get their guns from theft, black market, and if they have to buy "legal", straw purchases. Almost no mass shooters got their guns from private sales. Regular crime certainly some could happen... but to think forcing us to go to the range to sell our guns would truly stop the criminal from getting a gun is ludicrous.
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Unread 2017-11-17, 02:05 AM   #30
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While I fully support the 2nd Amendment, I don't like this argument about how someone will find another way to kill tons of people if they can't get a gun. Having a gun is hands down the easiest way to murder groups of people. From the availability of buying a gun, to the efficiency of killing as many people as possible. I don't think Adam Lanza would have killed however many kids as he did if he didn't have access to those guns. I sincerely doubt the murder rate would be nearly as high in Chicago if those gangs didn't have easy access to hand guns. Of course it wouldn't solve the problem completely, but it undoubtedly would curb the ability to mass murder people. Again, not calling for taking away guns or anything, just hate hearing that argument because it's weak.
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Unread 2017-11-17, 12:45 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Oblique View Post
While I fully support the 2nd Amendment, I don't like this argument about how someone will find another way to kill tons of people if they can't get a gun. Having a gun is hands down the easiest way to murder groups of people. From the availability of buying a gun, to the efficiency of killing as many people as possible. I don't think Adam Lanza would have killed however many kids as he did if he didn't have access to those guns. I sincerely doubt the murder rate would be nearly as high in Chicago if those gangs didn't have easy access to hand guns. Of course it wouldn't solve the problem completely, but it undoubtedly would curb the ability to mass murder people. Again, not calling for taking away guns or anything, just hate hearing that argument because it's weak.

I agree if we could push a button and make guns disappear, yes absolutely murder rates would drop, and society would be safer.

We can't do that... and it's not debatable that with 330-500 MILLION guns in our country, bad guys WILL find a way to get a gun.

This is why I support trying to keep guns out of the hands of bad guys. I just support doing it with our NICS system getting improved... adding a ban on private party sales, will not help enough to offset the loss of rights and value we would see by such action.

EDIT: I mean it's almost sick, how clear these most recent shootings make my point for me. This is a blurb on the California shooter... all the gun control in the world in CA, KNOWN FUCKING VIOLENT PROBLEM... police/laws did jack shit. We need to improve NICS, and start enforcing our damn laws.

Quote:
A judge had barred the Northern California man who went on a deadly shooting rampage from having guns after he was charged with stabbing a woman earlier this year.
Court records also show that Kevin Neal was charged with illegally firing a weapon and possessing an illegal assault rifle on Jan. 31. The 44-year-old was charged with five felonies and two misdemeanors.
The court records show a judge ordering Neal to stay away from the woman who was stabbed and her mother-in-law on Feb. 28. As part of that protective order, Neal was barred from having guns.
Tehama County Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston said Wednesday that police went to Neal's home several times for reports that he was shooting guns, but they never saw him with the weapons.
He says Neal had two homemade semi-automatic weapons and two handguns registered in someone else's name.
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Unread 2017-11-17, 01:53 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Ricerking13 View Post
adding a ban on private party sales, will not help enough to offset the loss of rights and value we would see by such action.
there is no right to sell your firearms to other people without making sure that those people are eligible to own that firearm. you know so much about this right but you went ahead and just made that one up?

you want to improve the NICS? great let's do that. now imagine a world where that happened - I like it here...

but then if someone isn't allowed a gun because of an improved NICS, what's basically just as easy as it is today with our broken NICS? buying their new gun from a private seller who, because of your made up right, doesn't have any legal requirement to verify or ramifications for not verifying that the person is eligible to own that firearm. so we've spent millions of dollars and years of time getting right back around to the current situation that you admit is untenable...

you want your guns? sure. we'll pretend like 2A is a personal right because Heller said so but there is nothing saying that we can't expect people to be responsible in transferring those to ensure that the work we hopefully do with NICS isn't undone right after it starts working.
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Unread 2017-11-17, 02:08 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by phreakdna View Post
there is no right to sell your firearms to other people without making sure that those people are eligible to own that firearm. you know so much about this right but you went ahead and just made that one up?

you want to improve the NICS? great let's do that. now imagine a world where that happened - I like it here...

but then if someone isn't allowed a gun because of an improved NICS, what's basically just as easy as it is today with our broken NICS? buying their new gun from a private seller who, because of your made up right, doesn't have any legal requirement to verify or ramifications for not verifying that the person is eligible to own that firearm. so we've spent millions of dollars and years of time getting right back around to the current situation that you admit is untenable...

you want your guns? sure. we'll pretend like 2A is a personal right because Heller said so but there is nothing saying that we can't expect people to be responsible in transferring those to ensure that the work we hopefully do with NICS isn't undone right after it starts working.
A- I could be reading your last couple posts wrong, but I think you are letting all this get to you a bit much... you seem rather snippy and short-sighted

B- I'm 100% in support of an "open" NICS check for private sales, and even a requirement of it's use in private sales (not transfers).

C- They can't get the current system remotely right... back off on restricting my property until you do please. Even worse, they implement this, I'm stuck doing it NOW, and it still has next to no effect, because the bad guys don't care... see the CA shooting just discussed. So I'm punished, so you can feel safer, but not be safer. That's the argument as I see it.
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Unread 2017-11-17, 04:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phreakdna View Post
there is no right to sell your firearms to other people without making sure that those people are eligible to own that firearm. you know so much about this right but you went ahead and just made that one up?

you want to improve the NICS? great let's do that. now imagine a world where that happened - I like it here...

but then if someone isn't allowed a gun because of an improved NICS, what's basically just as easy as it is today with our broken NICS? buying their new gun from a private seller who, because of your made up right, doesn't have any legal requirement to verify or ramifications for not verifying that the person is eligible to own that firearm. so we've spent millions of dollars and years of time getting right back around to the current situation that you admit is untenable...

you want your guns? sure. we'll pretend like 2A is a personal right because Heller said so but there is nothing saying that we can't expect people to be responsible in transferring those to ensure that the work we hopefully do with NICS isn't undone right after it starts working.
Pretend like it's a personal right??? Is it not?
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Unread 2017-11-17, 04:22 PM   #35
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http://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-...un-controls%3F

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After the Las Vegas murders, Sen. Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii) urged Congress to “take a stand against gun violence by passing common-sense gun safety laws.” On Monday, after the mass murder in Texas, he wrote, “A simple idea: Anyone convicted of domestic abuse should see their rights under the 2nd Amendment severely curtailed.” On Tuesday, Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) announced that he and Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.) are writing a bill “to prevent anyone convicted of domestic violence — be it in criminal or military court — from buying a gun.

In the spirit of these proposals, here are some ideas for tough federal gun laws — most of which should have been enacted years ago.

For people convicted of domestic violence, even a misdemeanor, how about a lifetime prohibition on firearms possession?


Further, a government license should be required for anyone who wants to manufacture, import, or sell firearms. The license should be mandatory not only for formal businesses, but also for individuals who make repetitive transactions for the purpose of profit. This would cover people at gun shows who put up signs declaring themselves to be “unlicensed dealers.” Anyone who engages in the firearms business without a federal license should be punished by up to five years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine.


Manufacturers, importers, and dealers who are granted a federal license should have to keep meticulous records of every transaction. Their records and inventory should be subject to warrantless, random inspections by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). If a license-holder goes out of business, all the records of past sales should be delivered to the ATF.

Before a gun store can sell a firearm to an ordinary citizen, the citizen should have to get government approval. This should apply not only to storefront sales, but also if the retailer rents a table at a gun show. As for the Internet, retailers can be allowed to advertise there, but the actual transfer of a firearm should only be allowed at the retailer’s place of business.

The purchaser should be required to answer dozens of questions certifying her background information. It is important that the government know the purchaser’s race, and whether or not she is Hispanic. Before the sale is consummated, the Federal Bureau of Investigation or a state counterpart ought to be contacted for a background check on the purchaser.

Any customer who purchases two or more handguns in a week should be automatically flagged and reported to the federal government and to local law enforcement.

Every handgun manufacturer should require handgun buyers to purchase a safe storage device for every handgun. Even if the buyer owns a gun safe, the buyer should always be forced to buy a separate locking device.

Of course, licensed manufacturers should have to put a serial number on every firearm. If someone alters or obliterates a serial number, the person should face five years imprisonment.

Felons should be forever prohibited from owning guns. They should never be allowed to hold a gun in their hands for even a few seconds. The lifetime prohibition should include non-violent felons who have been law-abiding for decades; anyone who was convicted of marijuana possession in 1971 should be presumed to be a continuing menace to society.

A lifetime prohibition should also apply to anyone who has ever been committed to a mental institution. Mental illness is not necessarily permanent, but the ban should be.

Patients prescribed medical marijuana should be banned, even in states where such use is legal. In fact, all medical marijuana cardholders should be automatically banned, regardless of whether they are current users.

Current federal gun laws provide a statutory procedure for prohibited persons to petition the ATF for a restoration of rights. For example, ATF would have discretion to restore the Second Amendment rights of a non-violent felon who has been law-abiding for many years. Congress should enact appropriations riders to prevent ATF from considering such petitions.

Only persons over 21 should be able to purchase a handgun at a gun store. That 18-to-20-year-olds defend our country with automatic weapons overseas does not mean that they can be trusted with handguns within our country. A similar law should bar rifle or shotgun purchases by persons who are under 18.

Assault rifles must be virtually banned. These, according to the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency, are “short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power.” For example, the Russian AK-47 or the American M-16 rifles. No civilian should be able to transfer or possess any assault rifle that was not already in circulation by 1986.

Any of the older assault rifles in citizen hands should be registered with the government. If someone wants to acquire one, both the buyer and seller should have to file an application with the ATF. The tax for a transfer should be $200, to discourage ownership. In the application, the ATF should require fingerprints and two recent photographs. Local law enforcement should be notified. The FBI should conduct a background investigation, and the registration process should take months.

If the purchaser is permitted to acquire the assault rifle, she should be required to maintain records proving that the rifle is registered, and notify the government of any change in address. To take the assault rifle out of state, the owner should need written permission from ATF in advance.

Assault rifles are one type of automatic firearm, but there are many other types of automatics. All of them should be controlled just as strictly as assault rifles. A violation of the stringent laws on these guns should be a felony with up to 10 years imprisonment—and much longer in cases of multiple violations.

The above is just the minimum baseline for federal laws. States should be allowed to enact must more restrictive additional laws.

If you think that this legal system would make firearms the most-regulated common consumer product in the United States, you would be correct. Every one of the above restrictions is already federal law, and has been for decades. A few of these date back to the 1980s or 1990s. Most of them are from the Gun Control Act of 1968. The tax and registration laws on automatics are from the National Firearms Act of 1934.

For decades researchers have found that many Americans do not understand how strict gun control laws already are. Some elected officials and journalists are similarly misinformed. Widespread ignorance about existing law makes things easier for anti-gun lobbyists who always insist that every notorious crime proves that we need more gun control laws.
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Unread 2017-11-17, 04:48 PM   #36
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Medical marijuana users should be banned.. That's flat out ridiculous.
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Unread 2017-11-17, 05:03 PM   #37
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Medical marijuana users should be banned.. That's flat out ridiculous.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they already are banned from owning firearms since marijuana is still illegal at the federal level.
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Unread 2017-11-17, 05:12 PM   #38
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Medical marijuana users should be banned.. That's flat out ridiculous.
Wow... okay grandpa. Way to not be up-to-date in life.

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Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they already are banned from owning firearms since marijuana is still illegal at the federal level.
Correct... it's insane. Alcohol, opioids, etc no biggie...

Too many people who just don't know still I guess.
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Unread 2017-11-17, 08:48 PM   #39
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Grandpa? Ok..

I just don't think it's right that medical marijuana users should be banned from owning a firearm.
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Unread 2017-11-18, 01:16 AM   #40
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Grandpa? Ok..

I just don't think it's right that medical marijuana users should be banned from owning a firearm.
I definitely could not discern that from your previous post. I completely agree.
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Unread 2017-11-18, 05:04 AM   #41
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I heard that before and I just thought it was some stoner propaganda bullshit. Can't believe that's even constitutional. Having pot isn't even a felony. I don't understand the rationale even if you account for it being illegal federally if you wanted to use that argument.
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Unread 2017-11-18, 08:41 AM   #42
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I heard that before and I just thought it was some stoner propaganda bullshit. Can't believe that's even constitutional. Having pot isn't even a felony. I don't understand the rationale even if you account for it being illegal federally if you wanted to use that argument.


How about the reality that pot makes you crazy? You really want those citizens armed??



Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

Video URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjHOBJzhb0
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Unread 2017-11-18, 10:42 AM   #43
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How about the reality that pot makes you crazy? You really want those citizens armed??



Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

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Man, you look so young in that video.
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Unread 2017-11-19, 10:38 PM   #44
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Also l-o-fucking-l at ricerking still buying into the "trickle down economics" bullshit. You know most of Reagan's economists were quick to realize their tax plan hurt the middle class.
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Unread 2017-11-20, 02:37 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by shaun y View Post
Also l-o-fucking-l at ricerking still buying into the "trickle down economics" bullshit. You know most of Reagan's economists were quick to realize their tax plan hurt the middle class.
Wrong thread? Not to mention sick point bro.
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