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Unread 2017-10-26, 02:49 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Keboh View Post
What regulations/legislation would you support that you believe would have a positive impact?

PS. the reason that legislation like this only comes up after super tragic events is because there are so many people clinging to their guns, terrified that an extremely limited regulation is going to result in a gun grab... cough cough.
A- On regs/legislation, most of what I support won't be around guns... as guns are a scapegoat for crime, poverty, domestic violence, and other social/societal issues.

B- On gun legislation specifically, the only things I can think of that would help lower crime/violence/homicide is:

1. mandate the BATFE, FBI, and states start prosecuting straw purchasers more harshly/consistently
2. spend their money going after problem areas/gun shops, instead of helping criminals obtain guns (which they actually did under Bush and Obama)
3. mandate every state accurately/consistently work with NICS to get all relevant banned persons into the system, including improving what mental health issues can cause a delay to purchase... I've read less than 40% of those who have been forcibly committed to mental institutions have been turned into NICS
4. furthering point 3, fund the NICS program substantially, so that situations like in Lousiana in 2015 don't happen

Those would probably help some.

C- your PS is really frustrating, when you act like I'm imagining these gun grabs... in case you weren't aware here's a list off the top of my head:
1- For a decade, we couldn't buy many rifles, purely based on how they looked, and calls for this to be reinstated happen often and in such a way that they could ban almost all rifles
2- NY, CA, MD, CT, NJ, HI, MA, DC all still have point 1 in place
3- NY, CA, and CT have actually taken steps to take previously legally possessed items in 1, from people that have them
4- In CA, you can't buy most new handguns. They have an approved registry, you add a new safety to a gun, change the grip, put out a new color... you have to get reapproved... one of the requirements to get approved is microstamping technology that doesn't exist. So no new handguns in CA!
5- In many examples, we in the gun world, have seen small seemingly insignificant changes, continue to be expanded to the point of significant loss of rights... California passed almost a dozen NEW gun control laws last year... after already having more than any other state!

EDIT: Love it... this came across my FB a bit ago. Army Veteran, pulled over, had 3 FACTORY ISSUED magazines for his gun. Because of gun control passed after Sandy Hook... his previously legal magazines are now banned. 3 felony charges... Judge gave him community service instead of up to 21yrs in jail. Knee-jerk gun control could've made this dude a felon... shit's wrong. Glad this judge saw that.

http://www.guns.com/2017/10/26/new-y...ource=facebook
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Unread 2017-10-26, 07:48 PM   #277
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You've mentioned gun grabs in this post as a reason you're worried about this legislation, man.

But to your points:

A - the legislation is funding the CDC to do the research. It's not about "what kind of spooky looking guns are doing the killing", this seems like a reasonable push to get more data on mental illness and how it plays a part in these shootings. I think that is the best kind of data we could get to better understand these occurrences better. Understanding them is a step to reducing.

B - this bill does fund the NCIS.

So it seems like this legislation takes steps to do exactly what you said.

I don't see why mandating that a gun owner report to the police if a gun goes missing is a problem, which is the only other part of the bill, but I guess you can disagree. I don't see how it harms, hinders, or inconveniences responsible gun owners seeing as, as you said, they would already do this to begin with.

And to your last point, this legislation is not attempting at ALL to ban, limit, restrict, slow down the sale of, or discourage the purchase or ownership of anytime of firearms. So I'm not sure why that's relevant besides you arguing that those (unrelated) points are simply a reason why ANY gun legislation is bad

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Unread 2017-10-27, 04:31 AM   #278
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Not to be a dick, but I think a mod should move the gun regulation posts to the other thread.

I'm shocked it hasn't happened already.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 06:06 AM   #279
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Not to be a dick, but I think a mod should move the gun regulation posts to the other thread.

I'm shocked it hasn't happened already.

It's actually relevant to the thread topic.


Go bust Wallace's chops about his for sale post in the wrong section
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Unread 2017-10-27, 10:36 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Keboh View Post
You've mentioned gun grabs in this post as a reason you're worried about this legislation, man.

But to your points:

A - the legislation is funding the CDC to do the research. It's not about "what kind of spooky looking guns are doing the killing", this seems like a reasonable push to get more data on mental illness and how it plays a part in these shootings. I think that is the best kind of data we could get to better understand these occurrences better. Understanding them is a step to reducing.

B - this bill does fund the NCIS.

So it seems like this legislation takes steps to do exactly what you said.

I don't see why mandating that a gun owner report to the police if a gun goes missing is a problem, which is the only other part of the bill, but I guess you can disagree. I don't see how it harms, hinders, or inconveniences responsible gun owners seeing as, as you said, they would already do this to begin with.

And to your last point, this legislation is not attempting at ALL to ban, limit, restrict, slow down the sale of, or discourage the purchase or ownership of anytime of firearms. So I'm not sure why that's relevant besides you arguing that those (unrelated) points are simply a reason why ANY gun legislation is bad
Answered your question on what might actually help, and you just repeated what I had said earlier... they can do the $1 transaction fee to get all the good items we want here... without adding in the police reporting... that as I detailed is an incremental step we've seen elsewhere to help take guns.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 11:42 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricerking13 View Post
Answered your question on what might actually help, and you just repeated what I had said earlier... they can do the $1 transaction fee to get all the good items we want here... without adding in the police reporting... that as I detailed is an incremental step we've seen elsewhere to help take guns.
the police reporting is for guns that have been stolen...

so let's break this down; no requirement:
Option A - when your gun gets stolen, you go to the police and you've already done what the requirement would have forced you to do and your bullshit slippery slope is already in play. if they find it you may get your gun back depending on what your gun did while it was away from home.
Option B - when your gun gets stolen, you don't go to the police because you're kind of a shitty/irresponsible person. you never see your gun again. the gov't can't take away a gun you don't have so the slippery slope is moot because your gun is already gone.

requirement:
Option A - when your gun gets stolen, you go to the police and your bullshit slippery slope is in play. if they find it you may get your gun back depending on what your gun did while it was away from home.
Option B - when your gun gets stolen, you don't go to the police because you're kind of a shitty/irresponsible person. you never see your gun again. the gov't can't take away a gun you don't have so the slippery slope is moot because your gun is already gone but now you potentially have to deal with the fact that because you're a shitty/irresponsible person you may have to deal with criminal charges for being so.


if you look carefully, you'll notice that the only thing that really changes is for people that aren't acting like responsible gun owners. the only benefit to 'normal people' is that if there ever was a big 'gun grab' (that's not going to happen) that they would have a harder time/a penalty for lying to police so that they could keep their then-illegal weapons... you realize how fucked up and paranoid that is right? (don't worry I already know your answer is "that's not fucked up or paranoid at all..")
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Unread 2017-10-27, 11:43 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by jwdb1fish View Post
It's actually relevant to the thread topic.


Go bust Wallace's chops about his for sale post in the wrong section
BMW resale seems to be lower than corvettes. Weird.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 12:19 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by phreakdna View Post
the police reporting is for guns that have been stolen...

so let's break this down; no requirement:
Option A - when your gun gets stolen, you go to the police and you've already done what the requirement would have forced you to do and your bullshit slippery slope is already in play. if they find it you may get your gun back depending on what your gun did while it was away from home.
Option B - when your gun gets stolen, you don't go to the police because you're kind of a shitty/irresponsible person. you never see your gun again. the gov't can't take away a gun you don't have so the slippery slope is moot because your gun is already gone.

requirement:
Option A - when your gun gets stolen, you go to the police and your bullshit slippery slope is in play. if they find it you may get your gun back depending on what your gun did while it was away from home.
Option B - when your gun gets stolen, you don't go to the police because you're kind of a shitty/irresponsible person. you never see your gun again. the gov't can't take away a gun you don't have so the slippery slope is moot because your gun is already gone but now you potentially have to deal with the fact that because you're a shitty/irresponsible person you may have to deal with criminal charges for being so.


if you look carefully, you'll notice that the only thing that really changes is for people that aren't acting like responsible gun owners. the only benefit to 'normal people' is that if there ever was a big 'gun grab' (that's not going to happen) that they would have a harder time/a penalty for lying to police so that they could keep their then-illegal weapons... you realize how fucked up and paranoid that is right? (don't worry I already know your answer is "that's not fucked up or paranoid at all..")
You may have missed what I said earlier, so I'll say it again with details.

As we've seen in other states, that continually push for more and more gun control, resulting in their firearms eventually being declared illegal to own... this would provide a chargeable offense to a person who didn't register their guns when that passed and they come looking for them.

CT passed registration, then a ban, and had very low participation in that registration. They then sent out forms to people who had PREVIOUSLY registered them (they've had two AWB registrations) but didn't the second time. With this proposal, you could not choose to say my guns were lost/stolen... you now have committed the crime of not reporting your "stolen" guns... that you of course still possess, because monsters out there want to ban guns based on looks and feelings.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 02:37 PM   #284
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Got to agree with phreak here. One of the big arguments against gun regulation is that it burdens law abiding, responsible gun owners and doesn't help prevent irresponsible ownership. This doesn't impact owners and puts a consequence on being irresponsible.

This isn't a registration. This is just a requirement that you contact the police if your lethal weapon gets stolen or goes missing.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 03:54 PM   #285
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How many guns are stolen each year in the US?
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Unread 2017-10-27, 04:51 PM   #286
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How many guns are stolen each year in the US?
Number that floats around is about 500k.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 04:59 PM   #287
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Got to agree with phreak here. One of the big arguments against gun regulation is that it burdens law abiding, responsible gun owners and doesn't help prevent irresponsible ownership. This doesn't impact owners and puts a consequence on being irresponsible.

This isn't a registration. This is just a requirement that you contact the police if your lethal weapon gets stolen or goes missing.
So I can show that multiple states, continually piece-meal steps to larger gun control and eventual BANS... but you don't think I should be concerned about it happening federally?
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Unread 2017-10-28, 11:46 AM   #288
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You mentioned the first step being registration. This isn't a registration.

What state has enacted a law about informing police of lost/stolen weapons which then escalated to a gun ban?
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