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Unread 2017-10-26, 02:49 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keboh View Post
What regulations/legislation would you support that you believe would have a positive impact?

PS. the reason that legislation like this only comes up after super tragic events is because there are so many people clinging to their guns, terrified that an extremely limited regulation is going to result in a gun grab... cough cough.
A- On regs/legislation, most of what I support won't be around guns... as guns are a scapegoat for crime, poverty, domestic violence, and other social/societal issues.

B- On gun legislation specifically, the only things I can think of that would help lower crime/violence/homicide is:

1. mandate the BATFE, FBI, and states start prosecuting straw purchasers more harshly/consistently
2. spend their money going after problem areas/gun shops, instead of helping criminals obtain guns (which they actually did under Bush and Obama)
3. mandate every state accurately/consistently work with NICS to get all relevant banned persons into the system, including improving what mental health issues can cause a delay to purchase... I've read less than 40% of those who have been forcibly committed to mental institutions have been turned into NICS
4. furthering point 3, fund the NICS program substantially, so that situations like in Lousiana in 2015 don't happen

Those would probably help some.

C- your PS is really frustrating, when you act like I'm imagining these gun grabs... in case you weren't aware here's a list off the top of my head:
1- For a decade, we couldn't buy many rifles, purely based on how they looked, and calls for this to be reinstated happen often and in such a way that they could ban almost all rifles
2- NY, CA, MD, CT, NJ, HI, MA, DC all still have point 1 in place
3- NY, CA, and CT have actually taken steps to take previously legally possessed items in 1, from people that have them
4- In CA, you can't buy most new handguns. They have an approved registry, you add a new safety to a gun, change the grip, put out a new color... you have to get reapproved... one of the requirements to get approved is microstamping technology that doesn't exist. So no new handguns in CA!
5- In many examples, we in the gun world, have seen small seemingly insignificant changes, continue to be expanded to the point of significant loss of rights... California passed almost a dozen NEW gun control laws last year... after already having more than any other state!

EDIT: Love it... this came across my FB a bit ago. Army Veteran, pulled over, had 3 FACTORY ISSUED magazines for his gun. Because of gun control passed after Sandy Hook... his previously legal magazines are now banned. 3 felony charges... Judge gave him community service instead of up to 21yrs in jail. Knee-jerk gun control could've made this dude a felon... shit's wrong. Glad this judge saw that.

http://www.guns.com/2017/10/26/new-y...ource=facebook
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Unread 2017-10-26, 07:48 PM   #277
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You've mentioned gun grabs in this post as a reason you're worried about this legislation, man.

But to your points:

A - the legislation is funding the CDC to do the research. It's not about "what kind of spooky looking guns are doing the killing", this seems like a reasonable push to get more data on mental illness and how it plays a part in these shootings. I think that is the best kind of data we could get to better understand these occurrences better. Understanding them is a step to reducing.

B - this bill does fund the NCIS.

So it seems like this legislation takes steps to do exactly what you said.

I don't see why mandating that a gun owner report to the police if a gun goes missing is a problem, which is the only other part of the bill, but I guess you can disagree. I don't see how it harms, hinders, or inconveniences responsible gun owners seeing as, as you said, they would already do this to begin with.

And to your last point, this legislation is not attempting at ALL to ban, limit, restrict, slow down the sale of, or discourage the purchase or ownership of anytime of firearms. So I'm not sure why that's relevant besides you arguing that those (unrelated) points are simply a reason why ANY gun legislation is bad

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Unread 2017-10-27, 04:31 AM   #278
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Not to be a dick, but I think a mod should move the gun regulation posts to the other thread.

I'm shocked it hasn't happened already.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 06:06 AM   #279
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Not to be a dick, but I think a mod should move the gun regulation posts to the other thread.

I'm shocked it hasn't happened already.

It's actually relevant to the thread topic.


Go bust Wallace's chops about his for sale post in the wrong section
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Unread 2017-10-27, 10:36 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keboh View Post
You've mentioned gun grabs in this post as a reason you're worried about this legislation, man.

But to your points:

A - the legislation is funding the CDC to do the research. It's not about "what kind of spooky looking guns are doing the killing", this seems like a reasonable push to get more data on mental illness and how it plays a part in these shootings. I think that is the best kind of data we could get to better understand these occurrences better. Understanding them is a step to reducing.

B - this bill does fund the NCIS.

So it seems like this legislation takes steps to do exactly what you said.

I don't see why mandating that a gun owner report to the police if a gun goes missing is a problem, which is the only other part of the bill, but I guess you can disagree. I don't see how it harms, hinders, or inconveniences responsible gun owners seeing as, as you said, they would already do this to begin with.

And to your last point, this legislation is not attempting at ALL to ban, limit, restrict, slow down the sale of, or discourage the purchase or ownership of anytime of firearms. So I'm not sure why that's relevant besides you arguing that those (unrelated) points are simply a reason why ANY gun legislation is bad
Answered your question on what might actually help, and you just repeated what I had said earlier... they can do the $1 transaction fee to get all the good items we want here... without adding in the police reporting... that as I detailed is an incremental step we've seen elsewhere to help take guns.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 11:42 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricerking13 View Post
Answered your question on what might actually help, and you just repeated what I had said earlier... they can do the $1 transaction fee to get all the good items we want here... without adding in the police reporting... that as I detailed is an incremental step we've seen elsewhere to help take guns.
the police reporting is for guns that have been stolen...

so let's break this down; no requirement:
Option A - when your gun gets stolen, you go to the police and you've already done what the requirement would have forced you to do and your bullshit slippery slope is already in play. if they find it you may get your gun back depending on what your gun did while it was away from home.
Option B - when your gun gets stolen, you don't go to the police because you're kind of a shitty/irresponsible person. you never see your gun again. the gov't can't take away a gun you don't have so the slippery slope is moot because your gun is already gone.

requirement:
Option A - when your gun gets stolen, you go to the police and your bullshit slippery slope is in play. if they find it you may get your gun back depending on what your gun did while it was away from home.
Option B - when your gun gets stolen, you don't go to the police because you're kind of a shitty/irresponsible person. you never see your gun again. the gov't can't take away a gun you don't have so the slippery slope is moot because your gun is already gone but now you potentially have to deal with the fact that because you're a shitty/irresponsible person you may have to deal with criminal charges for being so.


if you look carefully, you'll notice that the only thing that really changes is for people that aren't acting like responsible gun owners. the only benefit to 'normal people' is that if there ever was a big 'gun grab' (that's not going to happen) that they would have a harder time/a penalty for lying to police so that they could keep their then-illegal weapons... you realize how fucked up and paranoid that is right? (don't worry I already know your answer is "that's not fucked up or paranoid at all..")
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Unread 2017-10-27, 11:43 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by jwdb1fish View Post
It's actually relevant to the thread topic.


Go bust Wallace's chops about his for sale post in the wrong section
BMW resale seems to be lower than corvettes. Weird.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 12:19 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phreakdna View Post
the police reporting is for guns that have been stolen...

so let's break this down; no requirement:
Option A - when your gun gets stolen, you go to the police and you've already done what the requirement would have forced you to do and your bullshit slippery slope is already in play. if they find it you may get your gun back depending on what your gun did while it was away from home.
Option B - when your gun gets stolen, you don't go to the police because you're kind of a shitty/irresponsible person. you never see your gun again. the gov't can't take away a gun you don't have so the slippery slope is moot because your gun is already gone.

requirement:
Option A - when your gun gets stolen, you go to the police and your bullshit slippery slope is in play. if they find it you may get your gun back depending on what your gun did while it was away from home.
Option B - when your gun gets stolen, you don't go to the police because you're kind of a shitty/irresponsible person. you never see your gun again. the gov't can't take away a gun you don't have so the slippery slope is moot because your gun is already gone but now you potentially have to deal with the fact that because you're a shitty/irresponsible person you may have to deal with criminal charges for being so.


if you look carefully, you'll notice that the only thing that really changes is for people that aren't acting like responsible gun owners. the only benefit to 'normal people' is that if there ever was a big 'gun grab' (that's not going to happen) that they would have a harder time/a penalty for lying to police so that they could keep their then-illegal weapons... you realize how fucked up and paranoid that is right? (don't worry I already know your answer is "that's not fucked up or paranoid at all..")
You may have missed what I said earlier, so I'll say it again with details.

As we've seen in other states, that continually push for more and more gun control, resulting in their firearms eventually being declared illegal to own... this would provide a chargeable offense to a person who didn't register their guns when that passed and they come looking for them.

CT passed registration, then a ban, and had very low participation in that registration. They then sent out forms to people who had PREVIOUSLY registered them (they've had two AWB registrations) but didn't the second time. With this proposal, you could not choose to say my guns were lost/stolen... you now have committed the crime of not reporting your "stolen" guns... that you of course still possess, because monsters out there want to ban guns based on looks and feelings.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 02:37 PM   #284
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Got to agree with phreak here. One of the big arguments against gun regulation is that it burdens law abiding, responsible gun owners and doesn't help prevent irresponsible ownership. This doesn't impact owners and puts a consequence on being irresponsible.

This isn't a registration. This is just a requirement that you contact the police if your lethal weapon gets stolen or goes missing.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 03:54 PM   #285
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How many guns are stolen each year in the US?
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Unread 2017-10-27, 04:51 PM   #286
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How many guns are stolen each year in the US?
Number that floats around is about 500k.
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Unread 2017-10-27, 04:59 PM   #287
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Got to agree with phreak here. One of the big arguments against gun regulation is that it burdens law abiding, responsible gun owners and doesn't help prevent irresponsible ownership. This doesn't impact owners and puts a consequence on being irresponsible.

This isn't a registration. This is just a requirement that you contact the police if your lethal weapon gets stolen or goes missing.
So I can show that multiple states, continually piece-meal steps to larger gun control and eventual BANS... but you don't think I should be concerned about it happening federally?
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Unread 2017-10-28, 11:46 AM   #288
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You mentioned the first step being registration. This isn't a registration.

What state has enacted a law about informing police of lost/stolen weapons which then escalated to a gun ban?
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Unread 2018-01-19, 03:48 PM   #289
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Vegas gunman probed SWAT tactics, other targets









© The Associated Press FILE - In this Oct. 9, 2017 file photo, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo discusses the Route 91 Harvest festival mass shooting at the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department headquarters in Las Vegas. A lawyer for Las… LAS VEGAS — The Latest on the shooting in Las Vegas last October that left 58 people dead and hundreds injured on the Las Vegas strip(all times local):


12:30 p.m.
Authorities say Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock conducted extensive online searches for police and SWAT tactics and searched for other potential targets before he carried out the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.
Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said Friday that investigators believe Paddock had searched for several other public venues and took photographs of other potential sites.
A preliminary report about the shooting says Paddock searched for outdoor concert venues, the number of attendees at other concerts in Las Vegas and the number of people who go to the beach in Santa Monica, California.
The report also says Paddock also searched for information about several other hotels in Las Vegas.
____
12:10 a.m.
Investigators say they have still not determined why Las Vegas mass shooter Stephen Paddock opened fire from his high-rise hotel suite, killing 58 people and injuring hundreds.
Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo told reporters Friday that investigators believe Paddock acted alone in the Oct. 1 shooting at the Mandalay Bay casino-hotel.
Lombardo says he does not expect charges to be filed against Paddock's girlfriend, Marilou Danley, who had been previously called a person of interest in the case.
Lombardo said the investigation found that Paddock had possessed child pornography.
___
11 a.m.
With questions still unanswered about the shooter's motive and whether he had help, Las Vegas police are due to provide a public update Friday about the investigation of the Oct. 1 shooting that left 58 people dead and hundreds injured on the Las Vegas Strip.
Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo's briefing comes three days after a lawyer for the police department asked a Nevada state court judge to keep search warrant documents sealed because charges are still being investigated. The judge agreed to wait until at least next week.
A department spokeswoman said criminal charges could relate to items discovered in the service of warrants at homes, vehicles, cellphones, internet and email accounts belonging to the shooter, Richard Paddock, and his girlfriend, Marilou Danley.
Lombardo is the elected head of the metropolitan police department. His last media briefing about the worst mass shooting in modern U.S. history was Oct. 13, following several days of shifting timelines and accounts. The sheriff has expressed frustration about speculation and theories that have grown about the shooting and an investigation that he compared with solving a puzzle.
© The Associated Press FILE - In this Monday, Oct. 2, 2017 file photo, drapes billow out of broken windows at the Mandalay Bay resort and casino on the Las Vegas Strip, following a mass shooting at a music festival in Las Vegas. A lawyer for Las…
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Unread 2018-02-02, 10:05 PM   #290
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BREAKING: Arrest Made In Connection With Las Vegas Massacre

"Haig did not have a license to manufacture armor-piercing ammunition..."

Screenshot: ABC Video



The man who sold ammunition to Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock was arrested on Friday on charges of manufacturing and selling armor-piercing bullets without having the proper licensing, in violation of federal law.
Federal agents searched Douglas Haig's home in Arizona on October 19 after finding his fingerprints on unfired armor-piercing ammunition inside Paddock's hotel room at Mandalay Bay. CNN reports:
A criminal complaint says two unfired .308-caliber rounds found in gunman Stephen Paddock's room had Douglas Haig's fingerprints on them and tool marks from Haig's workshop. The bullets in the cartridges were classified as armor-piercing, the complaint says.
Haig did not have a license to manufacture armor-piercing ammunition, documents say.
Haig and Paddock first met at a gun show in Phoenix approximately one-month before the shooting and later came to his home in Mesa, Arizona, "to buy 720 rounds of tracer ammunition, which leaves behind a trail of light when it is used," The New York Times reports. "Mr. Paddock asked for a box to carry the rounds to his car and Mr. Haig gave him a used box that included his name and address. That was their only transaction, he said."
"I had no contribution to what Paddock did," Haig said. "I had no way to see into his mind. The product that I sold him had absolutely nothing to do with what he did. I'm a vendor. I'm a merchant whose name was released."
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Unread 2018-02-03, 02:34 AM   #291
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Will be interested to see how that arrest progresses.

A- has nothing to do with the LV shooting

B- nothing illegal about manufacturing your own ammo...

C- HUGE issue with maintaining a selling website and making a profit from selling ammo if unregistered/licensed (of course I believe this is a situation to be overturned by SCOTUS, but since that won't happen)

D- almost any round can be considered "armor-piercing" when fired from a rifle
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Unread 2018-02-03, 04:54 AM   #292
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I see absolutely nothing illegal about what this man did in his manufacture and private sale of ammunition.

As for the moniker of "armor piercing" being attached to his product...what a crock of shit.

Grasping for straws or attempting to pin anything, something on a guy they have been after for a long time for any other possible myriad reasons.
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Unread 2018-02-03, 09:04 AM   #293
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Grasping for straws or attempting to pin anything, something on a guy they have been after for a long time for any other possible myriad reasons.
I kind of feel sorry for the guy. Unfortunately this guy will be doing a lot of time just because he is probably the only one they can bring to a courtroom.
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Unread 2018-02-04, 01:18 AM   #294
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I kind of feel sorry for the guy. Unfortunately this guy will be doing a lot of time just because he is probably the only one they can bring to a courtroom.
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I see absolutely nothing illegal about what this man did in his manufacture and private sale of ammunition.

As for the moniker of "armor piercing" being attached to his product...what a crock of shit.

Grasping for straws or attempting to pin anything, something on a guy they have been after for a long time for any other possible myriad reasons.
There are few people on this continent that are as pro-gun as myself.

While I may not agree with our laws for manufacturing firearms or ammo... those laws are clearly in place, sometimes enforced, and rarely BUT occasionally enforced.

Creating ammo for the purpose of selling requires an FFL. This guy appears to have done that. Regardless of the LV massacre connection, bullshit 'armor piercing' terms, or anything else... if you aren't arguing for the repeal of our oppressive and unconstitutional gun restrictions... then this story means nothing, as he clearly violated the law.
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Unread 2018-02-04, 06:34 AM   #295
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Creating ammo for the purpose of selling requires an FFL. This guy appears to have done that.

This is a piece of information that I was lacking. I was unaware that an FFL was required for the sale of privately assembled or manufactured ammunition. For that action, I can see recourse being taken on part behalf of the law. Thanks for pointing that out. I learned something new.
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Unread 2018-03-22, 02:18 PM   #296
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Footage was released today

http://tribunist.com/news/footage-shows-how-las-vegas-mass-shooter-stephen-paddock-planned-his-attack/
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Unread 2018-03-22, 02:33 PM   #297
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Thanks for sharing, hadn't watched that yet.

Crazy there is still no motive... dude just decided I want to meticulously plan a massacre.
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Unread 2018-03-22, 06:51 PM   #298
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All these folks saying, "why didn't these people notice these heavy bags?"

Because he had 21 bags, dispersed, probably wasn't a big deal. Hell, what are hotels going to start doing?
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Unread 2018-05-03, 10:19 AM   #299
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Las Vegas Police Release Bodycam Footage From Inside Shooter's Hotel Rooms




Damaged windows on the 32nd floor room at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino used by gunman Stephen Paddock are seen on Oct. 2, 2017. Las Vegas police have released some footage from officers' body cameras. Mark

Damaged windows on the 32nd floor room at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino used by gunman Stephen Paddock are seen on Oct. 2, 2017. Las Vegas police have released some footage from officers' body cameras.
Mark Ralston/AFP/Getty Images


Newly released body camera footage from the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department provides a closer look at the tense moments for police during and following the October 2017 mass shooting in which Stephen Paddock opened fire from his hotel room windows, killing 58 people and injuring hundreds more.
The footage from two officers was released Wednesday in response to a lawsuit brought by multiple news organizations seeking the release of 911 recordings, bodycam footage and documents related to the shooting.
Video released to The Associated Press includes the moments after police entered Paddock's room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino to find the 64-year-old man dead from a self-inflicted gunshot.



"That's our shooter over there," one officer says.
"OK, we got one suspect down ... this is clear," the officer wearing the camera says a few seconds later.
The camera captures a room with semiautomatic rifles strewn about on the floor and on a tub.
Multiple officers walk around inspecting the room.
At another point, they note the system that Paddock used to see when police were approaching his hotel room.

"He has a intricate camera system set up, out to this," the officer wearing the camera says, pointing out the open door to the hallway. "So he knew when officers were coming down the hallway."
"There's a whole suitcase full of loaded AK mag[azine]s," another says.
Police found more than 20 AR-15 and AR-10-style rifles in the two adjoining rooms Paddock booked at the Mandalay Bay hotel.
In another video provided to the AP, an officer drives in a police car with a siren on.



The scene illustrates the confusion early on as police respond to the many reports of shots fired near the hotel.
The radio is busy with police trying to narrow the location of the shooter.
"We have a rifle deployed, we're in front of Mandalay Bay, we're trying to see where the shots are coming from," a voice says. "If anyone can advise, is it coming from Mandalay?"
"Automatic fire. Fully automatic fire from an elevated position, take cover," someone on the radio says at another point.
Law enforcement officials later said Paddock used bump stocks, which enable semiautomatic rifles to fire in a way similar to automatic weapons. Automatic weapons are tightly regulated and not often used in crimes.





The video of the officer in the car cuts back to a hotel room.
"I'm really thinking this is just a one-guy thing," one officer says.
"I hope so, but what about all the other calls, was that just people panicking?" another asks.
"People panicking, sounds like," someone says.
The two videos are part of about 2 1/2 hours of video police released after the Nevada Supreme Court on Friday refused a request by the Las Vegas police to delay the release. Several media outlets had sued to obtain 911 recordings, body camera video and other documentation after police refused a request to release the information.
The police had argued against the release of the recordings, saying the release would "further traumatize a wounded community." It would also force officers to "relive the incident," Las Vegas Sheriff Joe Lombardo told reporters Tuesday.





Police also argued that the work to review the footage would be too costly and require a significant amount of funds and manpower.
"It takes a significant amount of effort and resources for detectives to review, approve body camera footage, 911 recordings and documents for release," Lombardo said at a news conference in preparation for the release, saying the effort is costing taxpayers "several hundred thousand dollars."
Lombardo said more recordings and documentation would be released on a rolling basis.
In March, video released from hotel and casino security cameras shows Paddock appearing to be "an ordinary hotel guest and casino patron," as NPR's Scott Neuman notes, even as he brings suitcase after suitcase of weapons up to his room.
Despite the release of the videos, Paddock's motive for carrying out the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history remains a mystery.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...rs-hotel-rooms
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Unread 2018-05-05, 03:21 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Keboh View Post
You mentioned the first step being registration. This isn't a registration.

What state has enacted a law about informing police of lost/stolen weapons which then escalated to a gun ban?
Easy one. NY SAFE Act.
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