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Unread 2017-01-26, 11:16 PM   #26
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I'm not going to get into what I think you should be invested in but based on current market research, most analytics are pushing towards the average investor being recommended to strive to put away 15% (including company match). so just bear that in mind.

that's shaded a bit by the fact that the analytics I'm getting are coming from the recordkeepers (who get paid as a % of your assets so they've got a built in incentive for average participants to have larger balances) but that's what I'm hearing to ensure retirement readiness and guarantee a certain standard of living into extended retirement. definitely look at the electronic tools that your plan's recordkeeper has available (many have stepped up their game in that regard in the last couple of years) as that will help you get a realistic look at your situation as well.

as Lox said, the idea of a TDF is to appropriately diversify your portfolio given an assumed retirement date. one thing to pay attention to is whether or not your plan is using "to" or "through" TDFs but generally the assumption is that the TDF should be 100% of the assets for optimal diversification. if you're a more aggressive investor or you're forced to be because of a later start at saving you might consider pushing out 5-10 years on where you think you'll actually retire then pull back as you get closer to retirement.
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Unread 2017-01-26, 11:17 PM   #27
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I have a variety of funds that I'll list when I get back in town. Over the last year it's pulled 18.73%. Not bad I think.
That is great performance but the real measure will be the perfromance over a long period time. IMO, you're doing it wrong if you're not up significantly over the past year. With that said, our day of reckoning is coming. Be prepared to see it drop 10 to 20% sometime within the year.
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Unread 2017-01-27, 12:52 AM   #28
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Typically your management fees are going to be lower in a 401k than any retail IRA or brokerage account you would be able to open though, so its not exactly the most sound advice to tell someone to only contribute up to the match and then put money elsewhere. You also cant get R6 share class investments in a retail account like you can in a K plan, so again, you would be paying more in fees, which ultimately just come out of your performance if the fund is the same, but the share class is different.
I hear ya. It's just my opinion based on personal experience. When it comes down to it, be informed, keep your fees and costs low, and most importantly, don't keep all your eggs in one basket.

People tend to overthink this stuff and run all sorts of numbers and scenarios and what if's. Look at Warren Buffet's "15 minute retirement plan".

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Unread 2017-01-30, 04:20 PM   #29
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I haven't had a company sponsored retirement plan in years. For a while, I invested in various funds through American Funds. They performed decent, but the fees were (very) high. If you can do some basic research, there are some basic index funds that you can get very cheap (in comparison) by going through someone like vanguard.

If you are the set-it and forget it type, I really like betterment. They make it extremely easy, have a lot of useful tools, and is very low cost. A lot of their funds are from vanguard, but it automatically re-allocates current investments, dividends, etc., to keep within your goals, risk tolerance, etc. Some may find it too simplified, but I am able to find out or do what I want/need on my own a lot easier there, than I could going through my old advisor.

Shameless plug, if anyone wants an email invite to betterment, I can send you one and get you some free months...
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Unread 2017-01-30, 05:44 PM   #30
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I'm on track for 3-4 million (high side) between both the wife's and I's 401k at retirement but only have about 200k today, with contributions hitting what we owe on our mortgage in probably 2-3 years.... so I have no idea where that number would move if we effectively started over, but were completely maxing out what we could contribute whereas today I think I'm only putting 12% towards it on my side, and I think 8% on the wife's side. Obviously taxes for early payout would kill us and it may actually be a timeline closer to 5-6 years before we could actually have the funds to pay the mortgage down to zero after taxes and penalties.

I need to post on reddit and let the financial gurus tell me what would be smarter.
We have over half a million in our accounts, and I briefly entertained the idea of cashing out to a no debt situation, and while the idea of being debt free sounds awesome, the math doesn't work. You have to pay your 10% penalty, then you'll pay income tax on top of that, which on top of your household income puts that at anywhere between 33%-38% (state + fed). All in, you'll see about 52-57% the money you try to withdraw from your retirement account. That's money that could be growing.

https://www.wellsfargo.com/investing...al-calculator/
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Unread 2017-01-30, 05:49 PM   #31
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Yeah you're right...we talked more about it and are instead going to work towards a 15 year payoff deal. Going to be aggressive for us considering we bought a lot of house, but I think it's doable.
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Unread 2017-01-30, 05:59 PM   #32
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Yeah you're right...we talked more about it and are instead going to work towards a 15 year payoff deal. Going to be aggressive for us considering we bought a lot of house, but I think it's doable.
Going to refi to a lower rate or just pay more each month?

We were in a 30 year for 2 or so years, then refi'd to a 15 year at a better rate (our bank did it for a few hundred bucks) and it will save a ton, even at the minimum payments. The difference month to month wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Going from a $1k deductible to a $2500 on the insurance even kicked the difference down a decent amount - because lets be honest, you aren't going to turn in something less than that anyways.
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Unread 2017-01-30, 07:38 PM   #33
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Going to refi to a lower rate or just pay more each month?

We were in a 30 year for 2 or so years, then refi'd to a 15 year at a better rate (our bank did it for a few hundred bucks) and it will save a ton, even at the minimum payments. The difference month to month wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Going from a $1k deductible to a $2500 on the insurance even kicked the difference down a decent amount - because lets be honest, you aren't going to turn in something less than that anyways.
Pay more each month. Going to get somewhat aggressive on car payments and as soon as they are paid down, roll that into the mortgage payment which, if my math is right, will get us close to 15 years starting today.
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Unread 2017-01-30, 09:34 PM   #34
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Pay more each month. Going to get somewhat aggressive on car payments and as soon as they are paid down, roll that into the mortgage payment which, if my math is right, will get us close to 15 years starting today.
I'm pretty confident you're aware of this already but make sure that the loans you're prepaying don't have prepayment penalties and that you know each lenders' steps to ensure that your additional payments are going to principal.

its usually lenders that are on the shallower end of the credit rating pool but there are some mid-tier lenders that still apply addl funds to future payments - pushing them out further and further (instead of applying addl funds to principal) - unless you tell them otherwise or they may have included prepayment penalties.

figured it was worth a mention.
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Unread 2017-01-30, 09:39 PM   #35
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Made sure of that when I signed up and thankfully my mortgage payment system allows me to direct where curtailments go to, either principle or escrow.
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Unread 2017-01-31, 09:18 AM   #36
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I'm pretty confident you're aware of this already but make sure that the loans you're prepaying don't have prepayment penalties and that you know each lenders' steps to ensure that your additional payments are going to principal.

its usually lenders that are on the shallower end of the credit rating pool but there are some mid-tier lenders that still apply addl funds to future payments - pushing them out further and further (instead of applying addl funds to principal) - unless you tell them otherwise or they may have included prepayment penalties.

figured it was worth a mention.
Interesting. I thought prepayment penalties were a thing of the past. I have always asked the question when financing a house or car and was always shrugged off with a "yeah, we don't do that anymore."
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Unread 2017-01-31, 09:32 AM   #37
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Yeah its gotta be in the subprime market, I haven't heard of these things actually existing since I started borrowing.
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Unread 2017-01-31, 10:41 AM   #38
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Interesting. I thought prepayment penalties were a thing of the past. I have always asked the question when financing a house or car and was always shrugged off with a "yeah, we don't do that anymore."
they should be but places like Mint, etc still warn about it so I figured it wouldn't hurt to mention even if it likely had nothing to do with Scooby himself

the addl payments not going to principal deal is still the case with Nelnet for student loans (based on my experience with their site/organization) and was the case for Honda America with paying off my car as recently has 3 years ago.
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Unread 2017-01-31, 12:32 PM   #39
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they should be but places like Mint, etc still warn about it so I figured it wouldn't hurt to mention even if it likely had nothing to do with Scooby himself

the addl payments not going to principal deal is still the case with Nelnet for student loans (based on my experience with their site/organization) and was the case for Honda America with paying off my car as recently has 3 years ago.
Ah, student loans. On those we always had to specify and double check that we were paying principal on those. Even with documentation they are hell to deal with. I felt I could never trust them enough to do what they said they were going to do. After a few years, we started just saving money in an account and paying them off in full, one at a time. It was a little more interest, but a lot less headache. With the dollar amount of interest and the protections that they are awarded, I would think that the least they could do is treat people fair and respectfully.

I really like how Hyundai does it. If I pay extra, it is applied towards any accrued interest since the last payment, then the rest goes to principal (as it should be). They also consider it a future payment. So since I have paid ahead, I don't have to pay anything until Nov/Dec of this year (which is a nice thought) but if I do that, then the interest will keep accruing and I am back at square one, not having gained a thing.
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Unread 2017-01-31, 03:25 PM   #40
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Anyone here rollover their 401k into a Self-Directed IRA? https://www.theentrustgroup.com/blog...f-directed-ira

My father did and has had extremely good luck and buying and selling real estate these past 4 - 5 years. Just a thought.
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Unread 2017-02-03, 12:47 PM   #41
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would love to roll my 401K into a self directed IRA, but our home office bean counters don't like these ideas, of course if I paid the taxes and rolled it all into my roth, they couldn't really say too much.

but then again my roth and my 401K have not exactly been positive in production, but the roth is consisted mainly of low risk investments whose primary return is from dividends, so even if they lose value they still generate a return.
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Unread 2017-02-03, 09:49 PM   #42
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would love to roll my 401K into a self directed IRA, but our home office bean counters don't like these ideas, of course if I paid the taxes and rolled it all into my roth, they couldn't really say too much.

but then again my roth and my 401K have not exactly been positive in production, but the roth is consisted mainly of low risk investments whose primary return is from dividends, so even if they lose value they still generate a return.
Why do you want to go to a retail IRA over your qualified plan?
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Unread 2017-02-04, 10:07 AM   #43
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90% s&p 500 fund
10% bond fund

Old 401ks get rolled over into s&p 500 fund. (I'm on my 4th job, strated a month ago)

Also learned that most plan's have "after tax contributions" so for the past 2 years I have contributed around 5k after I hit the 401k limit into those.
I then take that money and roll it into my roth. It's an easy way to get around the 5.5k roth contribution limit as well as the high income roth limit some of you might run into.
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Unread 2017-02-04, 10:52 AM   #44
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Maybe Lox can answer this.

Why would I roll a 401k from a prior employer?

My first 401k is through Fidelity, and my new employer is also with Fidelity.

Is there any point to doing anything with my old 401k? The options are ok.
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Unread 2017-02-04, 10:52 AM   #45
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Maybe Lox can answer this.

Why would I roll a 401k from a prior employer?

My first 401k is through Fidelity, and my new employer is also with Fidelity.

Is there any point to doing anything with my old 401k? The options are ok.
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Unread 2017-02-04, 11:03 AM   #46
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I can only tell you why I do it. Leaving it in 401k you have less than 20 preselected investment options that are in the plan.
Rolling it into ira gives you the option to invest in thousands of options.
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Unread 2017-02-04, 11:58 AM   #47
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I did it because rolling my 3 previous 401k plans into one IRA with JP Morgan met the minimum balance for free checking and savings accounts.
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Unread 2017-02-04, 11:59 PM   #48
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Maybe Lox can answer this.

Why would I roll a 401k from a prior employer?

My first 401k is through Fidelity, and my new employer is also with Fidelity.

Is there any point to doing anything with my old 401k? The options are ok.
Look at the costs in your old plan vs the new plan. You should have access to a Participant Fee Disclosure, or also referred to as a 404(a)(5) disclosure for both plans. If you don't, call fidelity, and ask for them. Then compare.

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I can only tell you why I do it. Leaving it in 401k you have less than 20 preselected investment options that are in the plan.
Rolling it into ira gives you the option to invest in thousands of options.
Morningstar has recently published information that expenses are the most important factor in terms of investment success within qualified plans. So unless you have a ton of money, $500k ish, then you aren't going to be getting access to the lowest share class options available, that are most likely available in the K Plan. But you already know that.

Most plans now are offering a brokerage window where you can buy investments not offered in the plan anyway, so again, chances are you are still better off staying in the plan.
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Unread 2017-02-05, 02:03 AM   #49
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Morningstar has recently published information that expenses are the most important factor in terms of investment success within qualified plans. So unless you have a ton of money, $500k ish, then you aren't going to be getting access to the lowest share class options available, that are most likely available in the K Plan. But you already know that.

Most plans now are offering a brokerage window where you can buy investments not offered in the plan anyway, so again, chances are you are still better off staying in the plan.
That's not entirely acurate. The minimum amount to get the lowest expenses is 10k. Not 500k.
Vanguard admiral shares are .05% and they require 10k minimum. I would venture a guess that almost everyone has that amount to roll over
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Unread 2017-02-05, 08:43 AM   #50
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What is the most a person should be paying in fees per selection.
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