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Unread 2010-12-05, 02:59 PM   #1
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Default Will we see life as we know it change drastically?

Or are we conditioned to believe the end is truly near? This is really just a spin off of a conversation I had last night with a minister. I personally come from a christian upbringing, but decided about 13 years ago I was agnostic. I don't believe the book of revelation is meant to be anything more than a metaphor. Regardless, I DO feel that our generation will witness a dramatic shift in how our society functions. Thoughts?
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Unread 2010-12-05, 04:04 PM   #2
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Sometimes I wish all technology and society as we know it would crash and we would go back to small communities in caves. Sadly and honestly we almost need a dramatic event to get rid of the heavy populations in the world.
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Unread 2010-12-05, 04:32 PM   #3
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Maybe I am "glass half full" but Im usually too busy being amazed with where we have come just in my short lifespan and more wondering what amazing shit will become mundane next.
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Unread 2010-12-05, 06:58 PM   #4
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When I was a kid, computers were huge and used those old floppy discs. Now computers are as small as credit cards. That is pretty crazy technology advances for less than 30 years. We did not make that kind of advancement from 1960-1990 in my opinion.

I don't think anything huge is going to happen anytime soon that changes the way we as Americans live. The only thing that would change that is a combat conflict on our own soil..
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Unread 2010-12-05, 09:33 PM   #5
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no, we will live and die just like all the generations before us.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 11:06 AM   #6
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IMO, I don't think we'll see an over night huge event that will change everyone's life forever. I do think there is an impending energy crisis on the horizon that will impact how a lot of people currently live. Big trucks will go bye-bye for daily driving usage (as they already are), but another thing I see taking a huge hit are those bedroom communities far the city where the actual jobs are located, who are not self sustaining. In other words, we will begin to see the negative impacts of urban sprawl. I'm talking about places like Lees Summit or Gardner. Those towns have way too many people in them than they can support with jobs, and due to the future cost of energy, living so far away from work will not be sustainable. These outskirt type towns that developed quickly because of good highway access and cheap fuel prices are due for an economic depression. Think lots of foreclosures, and home abandonment as people flee to move closer to the city centers to be near jobs.

IMO, now is the time to get out. Sell your home and move inward. The homes out far away will continue to lose value, and the places closer to job centers will go up. Prices are down, foreclosures are available, and rates are low. Move. By the time gas hits $6/gal it may be too late.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 11:29 AM   #7
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I've never gotten in to the whole 2012 thing or any of the other apocalyptic prophecies, but shit in the middle east (Iran specifically) and N. Korea seems to be getting a little to close to WMD for comfort.

They are sitting over there enriching uranium and saying "We are only doing it for the energy". The US and the UN keep lollygagging around about it, and it seems like it will be a bit too late before Iran sends a couple missiles flying and saying, "haha. Gotcha!"

N. Korea says "Oh, and btw, our boy over in Iran hooked up up with a couple of those nukes too. Buh bye S. Korea. It's been real".

Seems VERY feasible within the next 2 years.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 11:48 AM   #8
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Zombie virus = The Walking Dead.

Seriously!!11!!11
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Unread 2010-12-06, 02:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Corners View Post
IMO, I don't think we'll see an over night huge event that will change everyone's life forever. I do think there is an impending energy crisis on the horizon that will impact how a lot of people currently live. Big trucks will go bye-bye for daily driving usage (as they already are), but another thing I see taking a huge hit are those bedroom communities far the city where the actual jobs are located, who are not self sustaining. In other words, we will begin to see the negative impacts of urban sprawl. I'm talking about places like Lees Summit or Gardner. Those towns have way too many people in them than they can support with jobs, and due to the future cost of energy, living so far away from work will not be sustainable. These outskirt type towns that developed quickly because of good highway access and cheap fuel prices are due for an economic depression. Think lots of foreclosures, and home abandonment as people flee to move closer to the city centers to be near jobs.

IMO, now is the time to get out. Sell your home and move inward. The homes out far away will continue to lose value, and the places closer to job centers will go up. Prices are down, foreclosures are available, and rates are low. Move. By the time gas hits $6/gal it may be too late.

Forgot Lawrence, KS.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 02:12 PM   #10
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Forgot Lawrence, KS.
Lawrence's economy runs off the college so I don't think it falls into what corners was talking about..
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Unread 2010-12-06, 02:24 PM   #11
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I thought of that too. But the college cant support all the residents there though.

The rest of the town is the definition of a bedroom community and in my opinion is worse than a lot of the others.
This is because there is a major lack of businesses and industry there. It is also 25 miles seperated in either direction from any other major city. The suburbs of KC at least are within a more resonable driving distance to find industry and businesses.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 02:34 PM   #12
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We just need to create more cities. Thatt'll help population and there is a ton of land uninhabited.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 02:58 PM   #13
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I thought of that too. But the college cant support all the residents there though.

The rest of the town is the definition of a bedroom community and in my opinion is worse than a lot of the others.
This is because there is a major lack of businesses and industry there. It is also 25 miles seperated in either direction from any other major city. The suburbs of KC at least are within a more resonable driving distance to find industry and businesses.
Parts of Lawrence definitely fall into the bedroom community category (lots of people live in Lawrence and work in Topeka because they don't want to live in Topeka). But for the most part, Lawrence will be ok. It's been there for a long time, and will continue. It's the towns that grew super fast and can't support it's own residents with jobs are the ones that will be in trouble. And when I say "in trouble" I'm not saying they will disappear. They'll still exist, just like they did many, many years ago, but they are due for a population adjustment. Gardner, KS, for example, had their population increase 459% from 1990 to 2009. What do you think is going to happen when there is a fuel shortage and/or gas prices climb over $6/gallon?
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Unread 2010-12-06, 03:06 PM   #14
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Aside from if we had a nuclear bomb dropped on us, I don't see much else really causing a major change in how we live.

I do agree with Corners though, that the entire country is eventually going to have to face the negatives of our suburban lifestyle and I see within 20-50 years a major urbanization movement. Even if it's not moving to major cities, but more of a development of sustainable small 'clusters' or 'villages', each with a balance of residents and jobs, all in the close-knit style of old towns. There was a term for this I learned in a class, can't think of it off the top of my head.

A big lifestyle change I do see, for Americans at least, will have to do with our health. I think a lot of these kids that are guzzling energy drinks, eating so unhealthily, and not exercising are going to grow up to be even fatter and dragging down the system more than a lot of the obese adults today. Something will have to change, I don't know what it is but something will have to make some of these ridiculously obese people decide to either get healthy or die off.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 03:45 PM   #15
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Here's how I see it...

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Unread 2010-12-06, 04:13 PM   #16
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Solid theory... but if gas hits $6/gallon, what's to keep all inflationary type items from increasing to match?

Double the salary to offset the double gas cost, to offset the double the loaf of bread cost, etc???

We've built an economy that works that way... not saying it's a GOOD thing... but that is how it works.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 04:35 PM   #17
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Solid theory... but if gas hits $6/gallon, what's to keep all inflationary type items from increasing to match?

Double the salary to offset the double gas cost, to offset the double the loaf of bread cost, etc???

We've built an economy that works that way... not saying it's a GOOD thing... but that is how it works.
I'd have to say items such as salary do not follow gasoline in a 1:1 ratio. Take me for example, my 5 mile commute using a 25 mpg car, increasing gas from $3 to $6 will cost me an additional $26 per month. Not exactly a budget killer. Now, take a Gardner person commuting 30 miles each way, that $3 to $6 gas will cost them an extra $156 per month. That can make a difference in a lot of people's budget and lives. Then there's perception, which as the saying goes, perception equals reality. While that extra $156/mo might not be the end of the world, those looking for homes will now be turned away from homes that far from work because of fuel costs (even though they'll just wind up spending it on higher rent or whatever). With reduced desireabity, those "stuck" with homes won't be able to sell them for what they owe, and those living on a tight budget won't find the extra money to pay for fuel to get to work. Ghost towns of quickly built spec homes.

Then what if gas goes to $8, $10, or $20???? We'll be talking real money now, not just a perception.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 04:35 PM   #18
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I don't anticipate a war on our own soil. Hell, a government would be crazy to invade a country where all the citizens are armed. I was thinking more along the lines of a shift in economics. Or maybe a large scale natural disaster. I'm not a 2012 believer. I just don't see how we can sustain our current capitalist system when inflation is one of the fundamental building blocks of said system.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 04:46 PM   #19
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I'd have to say items such as salary do not follow gasoline in a 1:1 ratio. Take me for example, my 5 mile commute using a 25 mpg car, increasing gas from $3 to $6 will cost me an additional $26 per month. Not exactly a budget killer. Now, take a Gardner person commuting 30 miles each way, that $3 to $6 gas will cost them an extra $156 per month. That can make a difference in a lot of people's budget and lives. Then there's perception, which as the saying goes, perception equals reality. While that extra $156/mo might not be the end of the world, those looking for homes will now be turned away from homes that far from work because of fuel costs (even though they'll just wind up spending it on higher rent or whatever). With reduced desireabity, those "stuck" with homes won't be able to sell them for what they owe, and those living on a tight budget won't find the extra money to pay for fuel to get to work. Ghost towns of quickly built spec homes.

Then what if gas goes to $8, $10, or $20???? We'll be talking real money now, not just a perception.
Gas and average income share a VERY close correlation... It's not 1:1, but it is remarkably accurate. You can check historical data... I've done it before...

Gas price increases... average/median salary increases...

If we saw gas hit $6-10/gallon, we would see 10-12% interest rates. A ton of work from the Fed, and a surge in inflation and income. Would it be permanently sustainable? I don't know... but I'm doubtful the gas prices would stay there either.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 04:55 PM   #20
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I don't anticipate a war on our own soil. Hell, a government would be crazy to invade a country where all the citizens are armed. I was thinking more along the lines of a shift in economics. Or maybe a large scale natural disaster. I'm not a 2012 believer. I just don't see how we can sustain our current capitalist system when inflation is one of the fundamental building blocks of said system.
Energy man, energy. We (US) is so dependent upon energy imports it is one of our biggest vulnerabilities. What if the OPEC decided one day that oil is now $300/barrel? What if OPEC decides to ration oil exports because of a huge global demand? What if a few of the countries in OPEC decide no more oil for the US? What if some of their oil reserves start to dry up faster than they've anticipated?

Energy will cause big shifts in economics and the way we live our lives.

What should be happening right now is...
- More domestic drilling for oil and gas.
- Start building the worlds biggest and fastest national high speed train system.
- Start building nuke plants.

We are going to be caught with our pants down one of these days, and it's not going to be pretty.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 05:12 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ricerking13 View Post
Gas and average income share a VERY close correlation... It's not 1:1, but it is remarkably accurate. You can check historical data... I've done it before...

Gas price increases... average/median salary increases...

If we saw gas hit $6-10/gallon, we would see 10-12% interest rates. A ton of work from the Fed, and a surge in inflation and income. Would it be permanently sustainable? I don't know... but I'm doubtful the gas prices would stay there either.
I'd be interesting in seeing this, but thinking a little more short term, back in the 70's oil embargo crisis, oil prices went up 4 times. Salaries did not go up 4 times. Now, it may have corrected itself after a while, but for the short term for a few years, that was not the case. Now, we have bedroom communities that are even further out form cities and other places of work. Put a real oil crisis on our country now and those living out will be hurting quite a bit.

Oil is also going to go up in the future. By a lot. Just my prediction.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 05:25 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Corners View Post
Energy man, energy. We (US) is so dependent upon energy imports it is one of our biggest vulnerabilities. What if the OPEC decided one day that oil is now $300/barrel? What if OPEC decides to ration oil exports because of a huge global demand? What if a few of the countries in OPEC decide no more oil for the US? What if some of their oil reserves start to dry up faster than they've anticipated?

Energy will cause big shifts in economics and the way we live our lives.

What should be happening right now is...
- More domestic drilling for oil and gas.
- Start building the worlds biggest and fastest national high speed train system.
- Start building nuke plants.

We are going to be caught with our pants down one of these days, and it's not going to be pretty.
Food for oil. Anytime OPEC wants to get brody, we just stop our grain exports to those countries. I agree that we are hopelessly bound to the gas pump, and we need to find viable alternatives. However, food is fundamentally more important, and we send so much overseas.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 05:28 PM   #23
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I'd be interesting in seeing this, but thinking a little more short term, back in the 70's oil embargo crisis, oil prices went up 4 times. Salaries did not go up 4 times. Now, it may have corrected itself after a while, but for the short term for a few years, that was not the case. Now, we have bedroom communities that are even further out form cities and other places of work. Put a real oil crisis on our country now and those living out will be hurting quite a bit.

Oil is also going to go up in the future. By a lot. Just my prediction.
From 70-80 and 80-90 oil went up by about 7.5 times each 10yr period and median salary about 5.5 times.

They are seriously close... and a 2-3yr "crisis" isn't going to cause your bedroom community flight.

Again I like your theory, but one positive thing our economic system HAS been able to do in the past is adjust inflation and income to keep things on track. Not saying that couldn't change... but I don't think it will come from gas prices.
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Unread 2010-12-06, 10:37 PM   #24
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I don't know what the future will bring, but I do feel like we have overpopulated beyond the means to have a sustainable future. You see it in nature when people cram too many farm animals together and disease breaks out. Now do the same thing with people. Disease was prevalent, so humans (accidentally?) discovered antibodies from mold and how to use them. Now you are seeing drug resistant cases or "Super Germs" starting to emerge. I am agnostic as well, but I think if there is a god, the earth is a petri dish in his universal lab.








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Unread 2010-12-07, 07:20 AM   #25
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no, we will live and die just like all the generations before us.
I agree with this. I am near 45 now and since I have been a lil kid, some mouth piece is always touting the end of the world. I asked my parents and they were told the same shit when they were little. It is a tool to get your money and nothing more. Every decision is easy to make when it is fear based and people spend their money that way.

Be at peace , live your life the happiest way you can before it steals the smile out of you.
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