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Unread 2011-01-04, 01:32 PM   #1
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Default Where is the Apoleptic Rage?

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3359
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New Rules Allow Imposition of Spending and Revenue Limits that Members Have Not Been Allowed to See, Debate, or Vote On

Another aspect of the proposed rules also seems at odds with promises made in the campaign about what a new Republican majority would do. There was much talk about increasing the transparency of the legislative process, and some proposals in the new rules package would do that. But the new rules also include a stunning and unprecedented provision authorizing the Chairman of the Budget Committee elected in the 112th Congress, expected to be Representative Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, to submit for publication in the Congressional Record total spending and revenue limits and allocations of spending to committees — and the rules provide that this submission “shall be considered as the completion of congressional action on a concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2011.” In other words, in the absence of a budget resolution agreement between the House and the Senate, it appears that Rep. Ryan (presumably with the concurrence of the Republican leadership) will be allowed to set enforceable spending and revenue limits, with any departure from those limits subject to being ruled “out of order.”

This rule change has immediate, far-reaching implications. It means that by voting to adopt the proposed new rules on January 5, a vote on which party discipline will be strictly enforced, the House could effectively be adopting a budget resolution and limits for appropriations bills that it has never even seen, much less debated and had an opportunity to amend. (There is no requirement for Representative Ryan to make his proposed spending and revenue limits available to Members or the public before the vote on the new rules.)

This would, among other things, facilitate the implementation of incoming Speaker John Boehner’s radical proposal to cut non-security discretionary funding for fiscal year 2011 by $101 billion (or 21.7 percent) below the level appropriated for 2010, as adjusted for inflation without any consideration or vote on that proposal. Once Rep. Ryan places in the Congressional Record discretionary funding limits set at the Boehner level, they will become binding on the House, and any attempt to provide funding levels that allow for less severe cuts will be out of order. This imposition of budget limits without debate or votes hardly seems consistent with the promised increase in transparency in the legislative process, much less with sound — or fair — budget practices.
for all the apoleptic rage that surrounded Democrats even talking about using 'deem and pass' during the healthcare debate, there is little more than a whisper about Republicans (including those so incensed by d&p earlier) using it to effectively subvert the entire congressional branch of government and give budgetary control over to one man...

deem and pass isn't the bogeyman here but its incredible that the new 'transparent' 111th Congress has already created a plan, behind "closed doors", to give budgetary control of the US gov't to one man (who hasn't really demonstrated a firm grasp of fiscal policy or truthfulness) if the House and Senate don't reach a resolution quickly (which they won't, especially if Republicans backup plan is to just subvert the Constitution and do what they want anyway).

where is all that apoleptic rage? come on Tea Party "patriots"... prove that you're more than the conservative-hack shills I think you are.
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Unread 2011-01-04, 01:52 PM   #2
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Have to see how it plays out... I'm all for having budget cuts across the board, if this is a step towards that then so be it.

Again have to see how it plays out.
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Unread 2011-01-04, 02:47 PM   #3
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Is there anything from the GAO or another source?

I haven't really seen anything that gives all of this power to a single committee head. This article is partisan itself and that doesn't really shock me being a Soros backed organization. Im not saying that I can say its factually inaccurate, just question the legitimacy of a liberal think tank claiming its a plot by republican "radicals."
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Unread 2011-01-04, 03:16 PM   #4
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Have to see how it plays out... I'm all for having budget cuts across the board, if this is a step towards that then so be it.

Again have to see how it plays out.
wtf? the ends justify the means in this case? I don't disagree with the ends entirely (2008 levels is just bs to wipe out Democrat proposals) but this is a terrible precedent and literally is trying to subvert the intent of our entire political process.

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Originally Posted by Ryan Stewart
Is there anything from the GAO or another source?
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...over-ryan-rule
Quote:
The proposed rule would allow the Budget Committee chairman to set spending ceilings for 2011 without a vote by the full House. By approving the rules package, the House would give authority to the new Budget panel chairman to set budget ceilings at a later time and his decision would not be subject to an up-or-down vote on the floor.

In practice, this would give power to Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the incoming chairman of the panel, to impose deep spending cuts since spending bills cannot exceed the budget ceiling for the 2011 fiscal year.

The House is set to vote on the rule soon after it convenes on Jan. 5.
this isn't Fox News and the New Black Panther Party bs... it is genuine. this is one committee head setting the federal budget unilaterally if the House and Senate can't agree on a budget resolution.
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Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ”all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except negroes” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.” When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocricy. - Lincoln
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Unread 2011-01-04, 03:20 PM   #5
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if he plans to cut spending in a drastic way then im for it.

it can be changed back if it is a problem.
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Unread 2011-01-04, 03:25 PM   #6
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if he plans to cut spending in a drastic way then im for it.

it can be changed back if it is a problem.
basically you are fine with it so long as Republicans get to do it?

really? you can't be that partisan that the basis of our republican form of gov't is up for grabs for partisan ends...
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Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ”all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except negroes” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.” When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocricy. - Lincoln
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Unread 2011-01-04, 03:26 PM   #7
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basically you are fine with it so long as Republicans get to do it?

really? you can't be that partisan that the basis of our republican form of gov't is up for grabs for partisan ends...
I think both of us are leaning towards being okay with it, if it cuts spending... both of us said that... we said nothing about political parties... you did.
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Unread 2011-01-04, 03:39 PM   #8
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I think both of us are leaning towards being okay with it, if it cuts spending... both of us said that... we said nothing about political parties... you did.
sorry... so long as it fits with your more conservative worldview where spending cuts are good regardless of where they come from?
(regardless of the party that usually represents that)
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Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ”all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except negroes” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.” When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocricy. - Lincoln
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Unread 2011-01-04, 03:49 PM   #9
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sorry... so long as it fits with your more conservative worldview where spending cuts are good regardless of where they come from?
(regardless of the party that usually represents that)
It's not a conservative worldview to acknowledge that our government is 100% fiscally retarded, and we need to start cutting their spending.

It's also not a conservative worldview that our crappy politicians won't do it on their own, we need major structural changes so they can stop destroying our nation. Okay maybe that last sentence was a little conservative-ish...
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Unread 2011-01-04, 03:56 PM   #10
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It's not a conservative worldview to acknowledge that our government is 100% fiscally retarded, and we need to start cutting their spending.

It's also not a conservative worldview that our crappy politicians won't do it on their own, we need major structural changes so they can stop destroying our nation. Okay maybe that last sentence was a little conservative-ish...
the question yourself is:
would you be okay if it was one person that was creating a spending increase?

if yes, then at least you're consistent.

if not then you're okay with it because it happens to meet your worldview (regardless of what you believe your party affliation, etc to be) and our democratic republic's foundation can be eroded a bit so long as you agree with the ends.

its a pretty simple philosophical test. and maybe that makes me a gov't optimist (despite my years of experiencing gov't giving me no reason to be outside of a few instances) but so be it. and yeah, I recognize that my own partisan politics are helping to fuel my anger but I'm more pissed about the nonchalant erosion of our system of gov't and the hypocricy I'm seeing.
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Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ”all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except negroes” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.” When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocricy. - Lincoln

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Unread 2011-01-04, 04:08 PM   #11
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If this would be eroding our republic's foundation, I assure you I can find many other examples that have done the same over the last 60yrs.
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Unread 2011-01-04, 04:21 PM   #12
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If this would be eroding our republic's foundation, I assure you I can find many other examples that have done the same over the last 60yrs.
perhaps. doesn't make this right and it sets a terrible precedent for the next Congress... Dems wouldn't get away with it because Fox would be bitching about it 24 hours a day at the top of their lungs but its still an awful precedent to set. plus, I'm wondering where all the Tea Party "populists" are when one of the very tenets they claim to give a shit about is under attack from the right.
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Unread 2011-01-04, 04:26 PM   #13
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basically you are fine with it so long as Republicans get to do it?

really? you can't be that partisan that the basis of our republican form of gov't is up for grabs for partisan ends...
no, it isnt a partisan thing. its the fact that spending is so out of control that the numbers cant even be comprehended on a realistic level.

if a dem stood up and said "enough is enough, im taking control because that is what i can do with the way its set up and im slashing prices all over the store"

id be like "thats good...."
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Unread 2011-01-04, 04:28 PM   #14
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perhaps. doesn't make this right and it sets a terrible precedent for the next Congress... Dems wouldn't get away with it because Fox would be bitching about it 24 hours a day at the top of their lungs but its still an awful precedent to set. plus, I'm wondering where all the Tea Party "populists" are when one of the very tenets they claim to give a shit about is under attack from the right.
i havnt watched any of the big 3 news station but if you are bitching about it im sure MSNBC is doing just what you say fox would be doing if it was a dem.

is msnbc completely quiet on this? somehow i cant believe it if you say they are. no way the sports guy and the man hater would be able to not make as big a deal as possible about something the liberal blogosphere is up in arms about.
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Unread 2011-01-04, 04:37 PM   #15
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i havnt watched any of the big 3 news station but if you are bitching about it im sure MSNBC is doing just what you say fox would be doing if it was a dem.

is msnbc completely quiet on this? somehow i cant believe it if you say they are. no way the sports guy and the man hater would be able to not make as big a deal as possible about something the liberal blogosphere is up in arms about.
dunno. its not on their frontpage nor is it on their politics landing page...
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Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ”all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except negroes” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.” When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocricy. - Lincoln
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Unread 2011-01-04, 04:40 PM   #16
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usually "news" is on their site, same with fox.

stuff like this that is kind of in the shadows but being raged about by the bloggers is something that olberman and maddow cant shut up about.
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