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Unread 2019-05-13, 03:45 PM   #1
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Default Coordinating with a Foreign Gov't to Impact 2020 Election

its almost like they think they can get away with it again...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/09/u...ine-trump.html
Quote:
Rudy Giuliani Plans Ukraine Trip to Push for Inquiries That Could Help Trump

Rudolph W. Giuliani, President Trump’s personal lawyer, is encouraging Ukraine to wade further into sensitive political issues in the United States, seeking to push the incoming government in Kiev to press ahead with investigations that he hopes will benefit Mr. Trump.

Mr. Giuliani said he plans to travel to Kiev, the Ukrainian capital, in the coming days and wants to meet with the nation’s president-elect to urge him to pursue inquiries that allies of the White House contend could yield new information about two matters of intense interest to Mr. Trump.

One is the origin of the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election. The other is the involvement of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s son in a gas company owned by a Ukrainian oligarch.

Mr. Giuliani’s plans create the remarkable scene of a lawyer for the president of the United States pressing a foreign government to pursue investigations that Mr. Trump’s allies hope could help him in his re-election campaign. And it comes after Mr. Trump spent more than half of his term facing questions about whether his 2016 campaign conspired with a foreign power.

“We’re not meddling in an election, we’re meddling in an investigation, which we have a right to do,” Mr. Giuliani said in an interview on Thursday when asked about the parallel to the special counsel’s inquiry.

“There’s nothing illegal about it,” he said. “Somebody could say it’s improper. And this isn’t foreign policy — I’m asking them to do an investigation that they’re doing already and that other people are telling them to stop. And I’m going to give them reasons why they shouldn’t stop it because that information will be very, very helpful to my client, and may turn out to be helpful to my government.”

Mr. Giuliani’s planned trip, which has not been previously reported, is part of a monthslong effort by the former New York mayor and a small group of Trump allies working to build interest in the Ukrainian inquiries. Their motivation is to try to discredit the special counsel’s investigation; undermine the case against Paul Manafort, Mr. Trump’s imprisoned former campaign chairman; and potentially to damage Mr. Biden, the early front-runner for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination.

The investigations had been opened by Ukrainian prosecutors serving during the term of the country’s current president, Petro O. Poroshenko. He lost his re-election bid last month to Volodymyr Zelensky, a comedian and political newcomer. Mr. Zelensky has said he would like to replace the prosecutor who oversaw some of the matters, Yuriy Lutsenko, who has met multiple times with Mr. Giuliani to discuss the issues.

Mr. Zelensky is set to take office on June 3.

Mr. Giuliani said he had been planning for several weeks to travel to Kiev to deliver a paid speech to a Jewish group about Middle East policy.

But intermediaries for Mr. Giuliani worked to organize meetings with people who they believed would have insights into the incoming Zelensky administration and the investigations in which Mr. Giuliani was interested. And in recent days, Mr. Giuliani reached out through intermediaries to request a meeting with Mr. Zelensky, he said, adding, “It’s not confirmed yet.”

If the meeting does occur, Mr. Giuliani said, “I am going to tell him what I know about the people that are surrounding him, and how important it is to do a full, complete and fair investigation.”

He said his efforts in Ukraine have the full support of Mr. Trump. He declined to say specifically whether he had briefed him on the planned meeting with Mr. Zelensky, but added, “He basically knows what I’m doing, sure, as his lawyer.”

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Thursday.

Mr. Trump has called attention to the scrutiny of Mr. Biden’s son Hunter Biden, and to questions about the former vice president’s involvement in the removal of a Ukrainian prosecutor whose office had authority over investigations of the oligarch whose company paid Hunter Biden.

Mr. Trump has also sought to stir up interest in claims that Ukrainian officials tried to benefit Hillary Clinton in 2016 by focusing attention on Mr. Manafort’s business in Ukraine. The attention forced Mr. Manafort to resign from the Trump campaign, but allies of the Ukrainian officials involved have denied that they acted improperly to benefit Mrs. Clinton’s campaign. Mr. Trump has recently suggested he would like Attorney General William P. Barr to look into the material gathered by the Ukrainian prosecutors.

Mr. Giuliani has been working on the effort with other allies of Mr. Trump whose involvement has not been previously reported, including Victoria Toensing, a lawyer who was named last year, along with her husband, as part of the legal team representing the president in the special counsel’s investigation. The appointment was rescinded less than one week later amid concerns about conflicts of interest, but Mr. Trump’s legal team suggested that Ms. Toensing and her husband, Joseph E. diGenova, would assist the president “in other legal matters.”

On social media and in regular appearances on Fox News, the couple advanced the theory that the special counsel’s investigation was the result of a Justice Department effort to frame Mr. Trump. They increasingly began pushing the claim that “the real collusion began in @Ukraine,” as Ms. Toensing put it in a post on Twitter in March.

The tweet spotlighted a story in the conservative media in which Mr. Lutsenko, Ukraine’s top prosecutor, announced he was opening an investigation into whether Ukrainian officials tried to help Mrs. Clinton during the 2016 presidential election by disseminating documents related to Mr. Manafort’s work in Ukraine before 2014.

Ms. Toensing has also met with Mr. Lutsenko, the Ukrainian prosecutor who has pushed the investigations, Mr. Giuliani said. (Mr. Giuliani had previously said that Ms. Toensing was representing Mr. Lutsenko, but after this article published, he said that he had been mistaken.)

Ms. Toensing will accompany Mr. Giuliani to Ukraine, he said, explaining that she was “concerned” for Mr. Lutsenko and wanted the incoming president to “promptly understand what he’s trying to do.”

Asked about the trip and her interactions with of Mr. Lutsenko, which have not been previously disclosed, she responded, “I’m not going to talk to you about this matter.”

Also involved in planning the trip and pushing the investigations is Lev Parnas, a Ukrainian-American businessman who knows Mr. Giuliani well.

Mr. Parnas turned up in Kiev, presenting himself as a representative of Mr. Giuliani seeking information about Mr. Lutsenko’s claims, and about Hunter Biden’s involvement in the Ukrainian gas company, according to people familiar with Mr. Parnas’s activity.

He organized a phone call between Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Lutsenko, as well as a separate call between Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Lutsenko’s predecessor in the Ukrainian prosecutor general’s office, according to Mr. Giuliani. He said Mr. Parnas also helped arrange a trip to the United States for Mr. Lutsenko in January. During it, the prosecutor met for hours with Mr. Giuliani in New York.

Mr. Parnas is an executive of an energy company that donated $325,000 to a pro-Trump super PAC last year, prompting a Federal Election Commission complaint by a nonpartisan campaign finance watchdog accusing Mr. Parnas, his business partner and the company of violating campaign finance laws.

A lawyer for Mr. Parnas, who had previously defended the contribution, did not respond to a request for comment about his client’s work with Mr. Giuliani in Ukraine.

Mr. Giuliani has done work in Ukraine before, having been hired in 2017 by the Ukrainian-Russian developer Pavel Fuks.

Mr. Giuliani described that work as related to emergency management consulting, but Mr. Fuks said in an interview that he hired Mr. Giuliani as “a lobbyist for Kharkiv and Ukraine” to lure American investors. “This is stated in the contract.”

Mr. Giuliani said that work had ended, and that Mr. Fuks had nothing to do with his current efforts.

“My only client is the president of the United States,” he said. “He’s the one I have an obligation to report to, tell him what happened.”
cliffs are that Guiliani is trying to push the Ukrainian gov't to investigate things that are potentially embarrassing to Trump's political rivals in the 2020 election. if one didn't know any better, that would looks suspiciously like pressuring a fledgling gov't that needs the US aid that Trump controls into trying to influence our Presidential election...


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Unread 2019-05-13, 04:02 PM   #2
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its almost like they think they can get away with it again...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/09/u...ine-trump.html

cliffs are that Guiliani is trying to push the Ukrainian gov't to investigate things that are potentially embarrassing to Trump's political rivals in the 2020 election. if one didn't know any better, that would looks suspiciously like pressuring a fledgling gov't that needs the US aid that Trump controls into trying to influence our Presidential election...



Monkey see, monkey do.

He should just hire Fusion GPS and let them outsource the work to the foreign entities.
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Unread 2019-05-13, 04:10 PM   #3
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Monkey see, monkey do.
He should just hire Fusion GPS and let them outsource the work to the foreign entities.
fusion gps was a research firm that was hired by members of the GOP and Clinton simply paid them to finish their work doing their own research.

that is nothing like this situation. since you appear incapable of creating appropriate analogies I'll help:

this would be like if the Obama Admin told Russia that they would be more open to lifting sanctions that were crippling the Russia economy if Russia suddenly found it in its heart to release the mountain of dirt that they likely have on Trump prior to the election.

see how that's different? I know you're not actually this stupid so I struggle to understand why you see a benefit in pretending like you are...
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Unread 2019-05-13, 04:19 PM   #4
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Maybe I didn’t explain my point well. Giuliani going to the Ukraine is not a smart move. What they should do is what the Clinton campaign did and hire a company like Fusion GPS to do the dirty work, such as using foreign intelligence sources to dig up dirt.

Is that better?
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Unread 2019-05-13, 04:26 PM   #5
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fusion gps was a research firm that was hired by members of the GOP and Clinton simply paid them to finish their work doing their own research.
^^ Just touches the tip of the iceberg but it's what the fake media has reported so far.

Once the report was received by the Obama DOJ and they found it could not be supported. The DOJ obtained warrants from the FISA court under false pretense by saying the Steele document was valid. Then they began the process of spying on the Trump organization and setting up fake Russia spying scenarios.

It will all come out eventually if Barr is an upstanding guy.
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Unread 2019-05-13, 04:28 PM   #6
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Maybe I didn’t explain my point well. Giuliani going to the Ukraine is not a smart move. What they should do is what the Clinton campaign did and hire a company like Fusion GPS to do the dirty work, such as using foreign intelligence sources to dig up dirt.

Is that better?
but that's not what Guiliani is doing. he's actively pressing a presumed US ally to become an active influence on the 2020 election (aka coordinating with and colluding with them). Fusion GPS was simply doing research. Guiliani wasn't headed to Ukraine to go talk to sources and dig through gov't records as a private citizen to see what he could find. he was going over there as a quasi-agent of the US gov't with leverage through his connection to the sitting US President whose favor Ukraine desperately needs, to encourage the gov't of Ukraine to try to influence our elections by hurting the President's major political rival.

this is 80s mafia movie strongarm bullshit:
what a nice country you have here... it would be a shame if the one person that almost unilaterally controls if you get the supplies you need to defend it doesn't see fit to continue getting you those supplies because his political rivals are too strong...
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Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ”all men are created equal.” We now practically read it “all men are created equal, except negroes” When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read “all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.” When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocricy. - Lincoln
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Unread 2019-05-13, 04:35 PM   #7
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^^ again all wrong.

Ukraine has said they have info on Biden interfering with their DA to keep the company his son worked for from being investigated. Guiliani wanted to go get some of that information but once it was in the press, I think Trump told him to hold off on that because of the optics.

I think Trump made the right call, Biden will loose against Trump without it.

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Unread 2019-05-14, 08:44 AM   #8
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^^ Just touches the tip of the iceberg but it's what the fake media has reported so far.

Once the report was received by the Obama DOJ and they found it could not be supported. The DOJ obtained warrants from the FISA court under false pretense by saying the Steele document was valid. Then they began the process of spying on the Trump organization and setting up fake Russia spying scenarios.

It will all come out eventually if Barr is an upstanding guy.
Barr upstanding? LOL Barr is a yes man. A yes man is great for POTUS, but the last thing a country needs as the top of the DOJ.
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Unread 2019-05-14, 08:53 AM   #9
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Barr upstanding? LOL Barr is a yes man. A yes man is great for POTUS, but the last thing a country needs as the top of the DOJ.
This. The attorney general is the countries top lawyer/prosecutor. He/she should hold no one above the law, not even the president.

When he behaves like the presidents personal attorney (and he has) then he can no longer be trusted to do whats right.

But, Trump has shown time and time again that he expects his AG to be his firewall from justice.
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Unread 2019-05-14, 09:21 AM   #10
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^^ again all wrong.

Ukraine has said they have info on Biden interfering with their DA to keep the company his son worked for from being investigated. Guiliani wanted to go get some of that information but once it was in the press, I think Trump told him to hold off on that because of the optics.

I think Trump made the right call, Biden will loose against Trump without it.
see... what's funny is that somehow you are literally wrong every. single. time.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-s-biden-claim
Quote:
President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer is raising the specter that Joe Biden intervened in Ukrainian politics to help his son’s business.

But if that was Biden’s aim, he was more than a year late, based on a timeline laid out by a former Ukrainian official and in Ukrainian documents.
...
its the consistency of your ability to somehow end up on the wrong side of every "what happened" that is kind of incredible.
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Unread 2019-05-14, 09:25 AM   #11
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You think i am wrong because of your reliance on fake news.
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Unread 2019-05-14, 09:59 AM   #12
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You think i am wrong because of your reliance on fake news.

If you're going to keep making claims that something is guilty ie news being fake, then prove it. Like you've said in the past, the burden of proof lay on the accuser. Prove to the rest of us the news is fake. My money is on that you can't. Your response will be for me and others to prove that it isn't. It's your typical deflecting.

Your 1 sided views on politics likely extends out in to the real world and likely explains a very lot about you.
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Unread 2019-05-15, 09:57 AM   #13
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If you're going to keep making claims that something is guilty ie news being fake, then prove it. Like you've said in the past, the burden of proof lay on the accuser. Prove to the rest of us the news is fake. My money is on that you can't. Your response will be for me and others to prove that it isn't. It's your typical deflecting.

Your 1 sided views on politics likely extends out in to the real world and likely explains a very lot about you.
Your inability to admit your news sources have absolutely 0 credibility and have been torn apart for releasing one false report after another is laughable. To stand here and say prove it is all you got. No need for you and your liberal friends to get nervous if there is nothing to hide, thats been your mantra the last 2 years right?
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Unread 2019-05-15, 12:08 PM   #14
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Your inability to admit your news sources have absolutely 0 credibility and have been torn apart for releasing one false report after another is laughable. To stand here and say prove it is all you got. No need for you and your liberal friends to get nervous if there is nothing to hide, thats been your mantra the last 2 years right?
Your inability to discern my political alignments is laughable. Your ability to critically think, or rather lack thereof, is revealed when you automatically assume because I don't like Trump as POTUS that means I'm a Dem/Lib.
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Unread 2019-05-15, 12:35 PM   #15
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Your inability to discern my political alignments is laughable. Your ability to critically think, or rather lack thereof, is revealed when you automatically assume because I don't like Trump as POTUS that means I'm a Dem/Lib.

Your opposition to everything Trump speaks so loudly that you statements around political affiliation fall on deaf ears.

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
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Unread 2019-05-15, 12:57 PM   #16
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Your opposition to everything Trump speaks so loudly that you statements around political affiliation fall on deaf ears.

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
I don't trust the man, plain and simple. I don't feel like America comes before him. Has NOTHING to do with his political party.
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Unread 2019-05-15, 01:57 PM   #17
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I don't trust the man, plain and simple. I don't feel like America comes before him. Has NOTHING to do with his political party.
its almost like you're actually judging him for who he is and what him being President means to the Office of the President instead of just on what policies he can give you that you might otherwise like...
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Unread 2019-05-18, 07:33 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by black96z28 View Post
Your inability to admit your news sources have absolutely 0 credibility and have been torn apart for releasing one false report after another is laughable. To stand here and say prove it is all you got. No need for you and your liberal friends to get nervous if there is nothing to hide, thats been your mantra the last 2 years right?
This is just incredible. The person quoting news sources isn't credible but the person just spouting off info from who knows where doesn't have to back up his claims. Sounds like a typical Trump supporter.

Quote:
Your inability to admit your president has absolutely 0 credibility and has been torn apart for stating one false assertion after another is laughable.
Fix'd for you.
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