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Unread 2014-07-20, 06:17 PM   #1
6-Bolt2g
 
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Default Which shop for work: My custom Brat Cafe' KZ440

I know of a few shops in the area are good but who would give me a good experience, no hassle and get it diagnosed.

Cafe Racer
Wades
Freedom?
Anyone else?

I didn't have a great first impression with Cafe Racer early this year about some little work. The guy would rather criticize than work with me.

I'm needing a drivability issue diagnosed and my carbs ruled out add the culprit.

Carbs synced
Compression confirmed good/bad
Drops the right cylinder


I've ran over every scenario and it still runs like shit. Even changing jets the bike still runs the same. I've spent all summer chasing this, I don't get a lot of time to work on it and July is almost over. I've put maybe 30 miles on it just in test rides this summer.

Thoughts?

Matches+gasoline?
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Unread 2014-07-20, 09:16 PM   #2
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Sounds just like my old CL350.

Does it completely dropout one cylinder? Or does it do it internmitently? Is it the same cylinder every time?
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Unread 2014-07-21, 12:44 AM   #3
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How about a coil? I know on my KZ900 that if one of the coils is going out it can just drop one cylinder. I have no idea why since it has 2 coils for 4 cylinders. But one would fall off and the other would run fine. Maybe a bad wire? Hole or crack in a wire that's grounding out? Sounds electrical to me. Just my 2 cents from my experience with my 3 KZ's. But mine are 4 bangers.

Edit: what do you mean compression good/bad? I'm assuming you mean the valves are working correct, but the /bad is throwing me off.

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Unread 2014-07-21, 06:06 AM   #4
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Drops the same cylinder each time. Yesterday the right on was warm enough to keep my hands on it but the left one was at operating temp 220+

Coil is a brand new Dyna unit. Wiring is all new as well and I checked to see if there was a voltage drop, ground or short and there wasn't any. Still gets plenty of spark.

When this happens the bike doesn't want to restart for awhile. When it does it still runs poorly then from what I can tell it starts running on 2 cylinders again.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 06:43 AM   #5
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Have you pulled over when this happens and checked for spark in both cylinders? Is it CDI or points IG ition?

Do you have CV carbs? Did you go through the carbs and clean them out really good?

It sounds electrical to me as well.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 08:17 AM   #6
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I pulled over and pulled the boots and checked that way and yes, there is spark.

CDI Ignition.

CV Carbs and Jetted. It ran great before the the new build. Re-installed the carbs once complete and now this.

I have gone through the carbs many many times. Nice clean new jets, new float needles, new diaphragms with no tears, float levels correct. No junk in the bowls either.

I thought electrical at first but after running through my simplified wiring everything seems to be operating fine. Good voltage, no shorts, all good solid grounds. Only thing I can really think of that may be bad would be the transistor igniter. Only stock item left on the motorcycle at this point.

I thought I read some ranges of voltage that it sends/receives and tested it one time to rule it out and it seemed fine
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Unread 2014-07-21, 08:54 AM   #7
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What about valve adjustment?
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Unread 2014-07-21, 08:55 AM   #8
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Or it could be that the engine just has too many strokes. Haha

I would pick Cafe Racer as the shop to look at it. IMO
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Unread 2014-07-21, 09:18 AM   #9
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Adjusted the valves and started to seem like it helped but still have the same issue.

I'll give Cafe Racer a call today. I'd like to get it dropped off somewhere no later than tomorrow.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 10:39 AM   #10
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Personally no matter which shop you take it to, you are going to be disappointed with the results. Shops are about fixing things, not spending hours diagnosing problems. Please don't take offense to this, but there is a reason shops won't work on the old bikes. Diagnostic fees would cost more than the bike is worth. Carb cleaning and sync would be 200-300. Compression would be about one labor hour. Diagnostic for the right cylinder would be a few more labor hours.

I would recommend cafe racer but be patient and understand that they have many bikes to work on and can't spend all day chasing an intermittent cylinder problem.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 10:42 AM   #11
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And my opinion would be the ignitor. These old bikes really struggle with weak electrical systems by today's standards. But if you know you have spark to the dead cylinder, then it has to be a gas issue.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 10:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brveagle View Post
And my opinion would be the ignitor. These old bikes really struggle with weak electrical systems by today's standards. But if you know you have spark to the dead cylinder, then it has to be a gas issue.
Problem is, the engine has valves and cams.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 10:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brveagle View Post
Personally no matter which shop you take it to, you are going to be disappointed with the results. Shops are about fixing things, not spending hours diagnosing problems. Please don't take offense to this, but there is a reason shops won't work on the old bikes. Diagnostic fees would cost more than the bike is worth. Carb cleaning and sync would be 200-300. Compression would be about one labor hour. Diagnostic for the right cylinder would be a few more labor hours.

I would recommend cafe racer but be patient and understand that they have many bikes to work on and can't spend all day chasing an intermittent cylinder problem.
Appreciate the info and I do agree. After a few phone calls this morning nobody was exactly thrilled about my description.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brveagle View Post
And my opinion would be the ignitor. These old bikes really struggle with weak electrical systems by today's standards. But if you know you have spark to the dead cylinder, then it has to be a gas issue.
Almost all aspects of the electrical system has been replaced with new improved aftermarket items. Starting system, charging system, controls, etc... Also has a custom made minimal harness.

Funny thing is that regardless of what jets or fuel level it seems to have the same issue. Wondering if it's in the timing system as it's the stock CDI ignition.

Oh, also when I feel like it's dropping a cylinder it starts to sputter and gains power, changes exhaust note, and takes off then dies.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 11:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brveagle View Post
And my opinion would be the ignitor. These old bikes really struggle with weak electrical systems by today's standards. But if you know you have spark to the dead cylinder, then it has to be a gas issue.
I'm with you on this. I still think it's electrical, but if you say it has spark......seems weird to be carbs if it only happens when it's warmed up. That usually throws me right to electrical of some sort. Usually, when my carbs are out of wack, it will be the same, cold or hot. I guess it could be a timing issue with the valves, but again, I wouldn't think it would run good cold and shit hot. But again, all of mine are 4's. I don't know how the 2 cylinder's act compared to the 4's. I would almost post on KZriders and get more opinions. Some of those guys, like any forum, really know their shit.

Sorry I can't help with a shop. Brveagle is right on with the shops around here. The little bit of work I've had done is by Independence Kaw. Couple guys there that love working on the older bikes. Dealership's been there forever and they still have some old parts laying around. They aren't the cheapest, but they've done good work for me.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 11:28 AM   #15
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I had a similar issue with my CL350 and I ended up just giving up. It was annoying being on the highway and not be able to accelerate. I tried setting the timing, putting in a new condenser all kinds of shiz.

Do you think your CDI unit is good? I know on the RZ's they can go bad. Usually solder joints go bad.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 11:56 AM   #16
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Looking at test procedures now and specs on ohms. I checked it awhile ago and thought it was fine. But who knows, I may have over looked it.
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Unread 2014-07-21, 12:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Looking at test procedures now and specs on ohms. I checked it awhile ago and thought it was fine. But who knows, I may have over looked it.
What about when it gets hot or vibrates a lot? That is when cold solder joints fail.
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Unread 2014-12-02, 03:30 PM   #18
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Hot. Expansion. Possible head gaske failure or crack somewhere?
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Unread 2014-12-15, 08:44 PM   #19
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One thing I have not seen mentioned is opening your gas cap and see if that helps the issue. It might be a plugged vent in the cap and when a vacuum gets pulled on the tank it starts shutting down the fuel flow.
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Unread 2014-12-16, 09:15 AM   #20
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Hot. Expansion. Possible head gaske failure or crack somewhere?
I pulled the head and engine out for inspection 2-3 months ago and didn't find any issues.

I may try that this winter sometime. I wouldn't mind just upgrading the petcock anyway.

Before winter I almost had her running right. Still in the jetting phase but I got 3/4 of the power band sorted out.

Slow off throttle to 1/4 throttle any gear any speed there is a stumble until 1/2 or more throttle is applied.

My style CV carbs didn't respond well to shimmed needles fyi.

Mikuni's will be purchased over winter and I may invest in a professional dyno tune.
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Unread 2014-12-16, 02:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I pulled the head and engine out for inspection 2-3 months ago and didn't find any issues.

I may try that this winter sometime. I wouldn't mind just upgrading the petcock anyway.

Before winter I almost had her running right. Still in the jetting phase but I got 3/4 of the power band sorted out.

Slow off throttle to 1/4 throttle any gear any speed there is a stumble until 1/2 or more throttle is applied.

My style CV carbs didn't respond well to shimmed needles fyi.

Mikuni's will be purchased over winter and I may invest in a professional dyno tune.
Just get Mikuni slide carbs and call it a day. 28 MM can be had cheap on ebay.
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Unread 2015-01-11, 11:29 PM   #22
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What about finding a set of carbs off a known running bike like yours and swapping them to see if it clears anything up?
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