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Unread 2017-07-06, 03:58 PM   #1
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Default Housing Dilemma

Hi All,

Just coming to see if anyone has any advice on a small housing dilemma I might be in.

So we have the chance to buy my wife's parent's old house. They moved like 4 years ago, it's paid off and her brother was living there for free until they booted him recently.

The house is in Lenexa by 79th and Quivira. It's in pretty rough condition. It was built in '75 and needs a complete remodel as it has stains on the ceilings, popcorn ceilings, broken cabinets, all floors are stained, all doors are torn up and hasn't ever been updated. The basement leaks and on the outside has either rebar or post tension cable that popped through the poured foundation. So this will need to be inspected.

The deal is we would have it appraised, inspected and everything in the as is condition and that is the "selling price." Then her parents would fund the entire renovation and add that to the before price and that is the sale price of the home. It's looking like a purchase of $140-150 with a renovation of $60-70. It's in the SMNW school district which isn't the best out there but not the worst.

The dilemma is we currently live up north and the school districts are highly rated and we generally love the area. Our house is good but her parents would provide a much better use of space and has an extra bedroom. The biggest push is we would be 5 mins from her parents, which with 2 kids we travel there (40 mins each way) almost every weekend from our current house. Also to add, we have a 5-7 year plan to save up and buy kind of our forever home. That would be the bedrooms we need, the space, the design and everything.

To some, doing this would seem like a waste of effort and money (although we aren't losing money and are really saving about $200 a month through mortgage, taxes and HOA). But we are considering that 5 years is a good amount of time to spend in the house and the proximity to her parents would be worth it alone.

Sorry for the exhausted explanation but just curious if anyone else has been in this situation or give me advice on the lenexa area and SM School District, my wife went through it but it was a while ago.
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Unread 2017-07-06, 04:21 PM   #2
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How much do you think the house will be worth after the remodel? I think to think about the long term investment. Lenexa is a good suburb for the most part, and SMNW is not bad. Sounds like it would be a lot of work getting it done, but there's something to be said for having all that renovation done with fit/finish/colors/materials of your choosing.....plus the added features of the house you pointed out.

I say do it.
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Unread 2017-07-06, 05:37 PM   #3
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So there is a comparable comp around $230. Exact same layout minus a few differences. But my real estate friend said comps run $220-270 in that are. The higher ones are a different house layout with one more bedroom.

My biggest thing is the foundation and how much into the budget, where each neighborhood will be like in 5-7 years and the school districts.
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Unread 2017-07-06, 06:36 PM   #4
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I totally glazed over the foundation issue. That will be a problem reselling even if it's fixed perfectly. That scares buyers like nothing else.
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Unread 2017-07-06, 07:27 PM   #5
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I totally glazed over the foundation issue. That will be a problem reselling even if it's fixed perfectly. That scares buyers like nothing else.
I figured it would be, but I kinda hoped that maybe the age would be factor. I mean it's 42 years old, but idk. We're still thinking it over. Our house now is only 13 years old. It's just a chance to renovate and my wife loves watching flipping shows and this got her thinking.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 06:44 AM   #6
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I think a total remodel for 60k is probably an under estimate unless you are doing most of the work... if you are doing most of the work then you are doubling the timeline. Then throw in foundation. Use a good rehab estimator tools... it adds up quick. How Many Sq ft?

Some modest kitchen remodeling can run $25k and up. Really depends what you want but I wouldn't consider spending that kind of money on a remodel unless you are getting the floor plan and layout you want/need.

If you could figure your purchase price and remodel costs to be around 80% of the ARV then you could potentially own the home for little to no money down. Location to me means more than the sentimental value. School district areonething that drive values.

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Unread 2017-07-07, 07:17 AM   #7
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That school district is great. Just make sure the house doesn't feed into Shawanoe. You want Mill Creek. All the apartment kids feed into Shawanoe. Feed into Mill Creek and you're golden.

Boundary map: http://repository.smsd.org/docs/Publ...ap-2016-17.pdf

High school rankings. SMNW is one of the best in the city... https://www.niche.com/k12/search/bes...ty-metro-area/
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Unread 2017-07-07, 07:33 AM   #8
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FYI...

Shawanoe ranks 3/10: https://www.greatschools.org/kansas/...entary-School/

Mill Creek ranks 10/10: https://www.greatschools.org/kansas/...entary-School/

Look at the test score differences. Look at the percentage of kids on reduced lunches. Shawanoe is also 52% Hispanic, while nothing wrong with that (and I hope nobody takes that the wrong way), but it's disproportionate to the area as a whole. It's basically all the apartments around 75th and Quivira that feed into Shawanoe. Those aren't exactly the nicest apartments.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 07:53 AM   #9
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Two very different options. Personally, if I thought it was even an option, I would have it inspected, gone over with a trusted general contractor, a foundation expert, and appraised. I wouldn't make any sort of decision until all of those were done. I would probably opt to have the appraisal done last to make sure all issues are accounted for (I just don't know how thorough or knowledgeable appraisers are in areas like that).

Until then, it has the ability to be a great opportunity, or your worst nightmare. It really doesn't take a lot to give some rough homes a facelift and make them pretty nice for what you have invested. You could get in cheap, make it livable, and either get it paid off or add to your investment as time and money allow. On the other hand, if there are a lot of expensive or unforeseen issues once you tear into everything (which at this point I am assuming you are committed), then you could be in a tough spot.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 08:28 AM   #10
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Give Mark Clark Const a call for the foundation. Guy shoots straight. Isn't going to tell you to do shit you don't need to do, is fairly priced, does the job right too.

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Unread 2017-07-07, 09:32 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by polock4life View Post
I think a total remodel for 60k is probably an under estimate unless you are doing most of the work... if you are doing most of the work then you are doubling the timeline. Then throw in foundation. Use a good rehab estimator tools... it adds up quick. How Many Sq ft?

Some modest kitchen remodeling can run $25k and up. Really depends what you want but I wouldn't consider spending that kind of money on a remodel unless you are getting the floor plan and layout you want/need.

If you could figure your purchase price and remodel costs to be around 80% of the ARV then you could potentially own the home for little to no money down. Location to me means more than the sentimental value. School district areonething that drive values.
This is also a concern. It's about 1700 sqft not including the basement. We would want to finish a portion of the basement for a play area and my office. The only major changes needed is both bathrooms redone, kitchen redone, popcorn ceiling gone, roof, foundation, driveway, landscaping. Other than that the bedrooms are good just need more up-to-date doors, paint, carpet. I was hoping this wouldn't exceed 60-70 but I think it really depends on the foundation. The kitchen isn't too big, the biggest part would be the dormers being removed.

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FYI...

Shawanoe ranks 3/10: https://www.greatschools.org/kansas/...entary-School/

Mill Creek ranks 10/10: https://www.greatschools.org/kansas/...entary-School/

Look at the test score differences. Look at the percentage of kids on reduced lunches. Shawanoe is also 52% Hispanic, while nothing wrong with that (and I hope nobody takes that the wrong way), but it's disproportionate to the area as a whole. It's basically all the apartments around 75th and Quivira that feed into Shawanoe. Those aren't exactly the nicest apartments.
So her mom is a teacher in the SM School District for 20+ years and currently it does go to Shawanoe, but she said after this school year, starting next it will go to Mill Creek. Which means the apt people go to Mill Creek. The house is right there behind Trail Ridge Middle.

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Two very different options. Personally, if I thought it was even an option, I would have it inspected, gone over with a trusted general contractor, a foundation expert, and appraised. I wouldn't make any sort of decision until all of those were done. I would probably opt to have the appraisal done last to make sure all issues are accounted for (I just don't know how thorough or knowledgeable appraisers are in areas like that).

Until then, it has the ability to be a great opportunity, or your worst nightmare. It really doesn't take a lot to give some rough homes a facelift and make them pretty nice for what you have invested. You could get in cheap, make it livable, and either get it paid off or add to your investment as time and money allow. On the other hand, if there are a lot of expensive or unforeseen issues once you tear into everything (which at this point I am assuming you are committed), then you could be in a tough spot.
So her parents are selling it regardless. They are going to have all the inspections and bids and such done regardless. It's kind of a nice deal we can see almost all options before making a decision. It really depends on the outcome of the inspections, engineer inspection and contractor bids.

If the house can be fixed within budget, to us it really comes down to area of Lenexa vs up north. We do love it up here but Lenexa could be nice too and the added benefit of being 5 mins from her parents. My two kids are their only grand-children and they love spending time with them, and we do too.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 10:18 AM   #12
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So her mom is a teacher in the SM School District for 20+ years and currently it does go to Shawanoe, but she said after this school year, starting next it will go to Mill Creek. Which means the apt people go to Mill Creek. The house is right there behind Trail Ridge Middle.
The apartment kids are not going to Mill Creek even with the new boundary changes....

http://repository.smsd.org/docs/Publ...nformation.pdf

Looks like you're good to go there. Gerrymandering in your favor...

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Unread 2017-07-07, 10:26 AM   #13
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60k worth of renovation on what you have explained thus far, doesn't take you too far. I think that is a very low number. You can EASILY spend $ 10k in a bathroom, $ 20k in a kitchen, another $ 10k on flooring, carpet, painting, etc...
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Unread 2017-07-07, 10:36 AM   #14
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60k worth of renovation on what you have explained thus far, doesn't take you too far. I think that is a very low number. You can EASILY spend $ 10k in a bathroom, $ 20k in a kitchen, another $ 10k on flooring, carpet, painting, etc...
I have a feeling I may be underestimating. I do have several connections for flooring, bathroom and tile work. I'm banking on the size of the kitchen and conditions of the bathroom not being too bad. The kitchen has just one wall of cabinets about 12-15 linear feet, then an island.

But I may get estimates and shit my pants. The good thing is, the timeline isn't really that big of a concern given we have a place to live and if we do go through and sell before hand we can shack up with her parents until it's done.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 10:39 AM   #15
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The apartment kids are not going to Mill Creek even with the new boundary changes....

http://repository.smsd.org/docs/Publ...nformation.pdf

Looks like you're good to go there. Gerrymandering in your favor...

It looks like the new map would be mill creek. If it didn't change, we could always low key use her parent's address that would be the Christa McAuliffe school boundary.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 10:46 AM   #16
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You could wind up spending $60k in the foundation alone if it's bad enough. I doubt you will get away with anything less than $20k in foundation issues.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 11:03 AM   #17
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You could wind up spending $60k in the foundation alone if it's bad enough. I doubt you will get away with anything less than $20k in foundation issues.
The foundation issue in question is what looks like a piece of rebar that has popped out of the poured wall on one side. And then there is a place in the unfinished area that lets in water. Nothing is bowing or broken, so I'm hoping it's not too horrible. They should be able to give a complete evaluation too since it's not finished and can see all the walls.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 11:21 AM   #18
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Get solid estimates on all work before entering into a deal like this. $60k is going to end up being way low I'm sure.

How are the windows? Roof? Exterior Doors? Yard? Driveway in good shape? Any wood rot in window sills, etc.? We spent almost $12k on our house in KC reparing wood rot our pre-inspection didn't catch!

How old are the furnace, A/C, water heater, appliances, etc.? All these things cost money, and not a small amount!
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Unread 2017-07-07, 11:26 AM   #19
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People hear foundation and lose their minds.

Sounds like yours isn't too bad.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 11:34 AM   #20
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Me being the frugal one that I am, and obviously I don't know your current situation, but I would also look at the possibility of purchasing it "pre-renovation" if all of the expensive stuff checked out. It would keep your payments low, let you fix/change things as you could pay cash for them, possibly pay off the house sooner or with less interest since you are not financing as much, and if the city/count appraisal is a lot more than what you get back, you could fight it and pay cheaper property taxes for a bit. Just something to consider. The city/county may want to come in to look around, but you don't have to let them in after that. As soon as they are done, renovate away.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 11:43 AM   #21
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So her mom is a teacher in the SM School District for 20+ years and currently it does go to Shawanoe, but she said after this school year, starting next it will go to Mill Creek. Which means the apt people go to Mill Creek. The house is right there behind Trail Ridge Middle.
We live in Shawnee and I everyday I pass the subdivision area I believe you're talking about. Unfortunately, that area just south of "Jail Ridge", as my 12 y/o calls it, and call be pretty rough. It's a lot of multi-family townhomes with tons of cars parked on the streets. A friend of ours is a Shawnee police officer and he says to the two worst areas in Shawnee for crime are the housing areas immediately surrounding Trail Ridge and Section 8 housing out near the HyVee Shawnee Mission PKWY and Antioch. The dept patrols those areas very heavily, especially Trail Ridge, to maintain the expected JOCO "order", but he says it's not still not a desirable place to be buying a home or letting the kiddos run free.

We LOVE Shawnee and wouldn't live anywhere else in the metro. Homes are generally cheap and the public schools (minus Shawanoe) are solid. The district did revise the boundaries in an effort to try and spread the income groups, but they didn't go far enough, IMO. Shawanoe and a few other lower income schools still got screwed because so many fearful white parents in wealthier areas like Mill Creek simply couldn't handle the thought of their kiddos mixing in with Hispanics and blacks. The races among the elementary schools are quite disproportionate except for perhaps Benninghoven (next to Northwest) where my kids go/went.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 12:18 PM   #22
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Get solid estimates on all work before entering into a deal like this. $60k is going to end up being way low I'm sure.

How are the windows? Roof? Exterior Doors? Yard? Driveway in good shape? Any wood rot in window sills, etc.? We spent almost $12k on our house in KC reparing wood rot our pre-inspection didn't catch!

How old are the furnace, A/C, water heater, appliances, etc.? All these things cost money, and not a small amount!
The HVAC is fairly new (within 5 years). The roof needs replaced, only a few pieces of wood rot on the trim boards, windows are 5 years old, the driveway is just aesthetically bad. It's not in need of immediate replacing. Would probably need to do new siding. Just kitchen appliances needed. Prob would replace front door for aesthetic reasons and then back patio slider for same reason.

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Originally Posted by 69Mach351 View Post
Me being the frugal one that I am, and obviously I don't know your current situation, but I would also look at the possibility of purchasing it "pre-renovation" if all of the expensive stuff checked out. It would keep your payments low, let you fix/change things as you could pay cash for them, possibly pay off the house sooner or with less interest since you are not financing as much, and if the city/count appraisal is a lot more than what you get back, you could fight it and pay cheaper property taxes for a bit. Just something to consider. The city/county may want to come in to look around, but you don't have to let them in after that. As soon as they are done, renovate away.
The thing is, it's not really liveable with 2 small kids in the as is condition. Her siblings lived there and trashed it. Severely stained carpet, broken cabinets, broken mirrors, stained ceilings and walls. I would love to get for like $120k and save a ton of money on taxes, insurance and payment but in order for me to even move my family there, it needs renovated. And if I'm going to do any reno, I'd rather just have it all done before we even move in there. The renos I have had done here have been kind of consuming with a 2 year old and a 2 month old.


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Originally Posted by Dave B View Post
We live in Shawnee and I everyday I pass the subdivision area I believe you're talking about. Unfortunately, that area just south of "Jail Ridge", as my 12 y/o calls it, and call be pretty rough. It's a lot of multi-family townhomes with tons of cars parked on the streets. A friend of ours is a Shawnee police officer and he says to the two worst areas in Shawnee for crime are the housing areas immediately surrounding Trail Ridge and Section 8 housing out near the HyVee Shawnee Mission PKWY and Antioch. The dept patrols those areas very heavily, especially Trail Ridge, to maintain the expected JOCO "order", but he says it's not still not a desirable place to be buying a home or letting the kiddos run free.

We LOVE Shawnee and wouldn't live anywhere else in the metro. Homes are generally cheap and the public schools (minus Shawanoe) are solid. The district did revise the boundaries in an effort to try and spread the income groups, but they didn't go far enough, IMO. Shawanoe and a few other lower income schools still got screwed because so many fearful white parents in wealthier areas like Mill Creek simply couldn't handle the thought of their kiddos mixing in with Hispanics and blacks. The races among the elementary schools are quite disproportionate except for perhaps Benninghoven (next to Northwest) where my kids go/went.
So the house sit's on Westgate Dr from 79th st. It doesn't seem too bad and my wife grew up in the house and never had a problem, but she's been gone from that house for almost 8 years. So a lot can change in that time.
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Originally Posted by EUPHORIC View Post
I guess people are doing anything for a quick buck these days. If I wanna vacuum my house butt naked while listening to Darude - Sandstorm with the blinds open, I should be able to without people OUTSIDE giving a fuck.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 12:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by impaul4 View Post
So the house sit's on Westgate Dr from 79th st. It doesn't seem too bad and my wife grew up in the house and never had a problem, but she's been gone from that house for almost 8 years. So a lot can change in that time.
Agreed. That neighborhood is fine. FYI, we have similar sized and looking JOCO split-level homes in my neighborhood and three have sold in the past few months for $220-250K and these were not updated homes. These homes sold in a day or two. If you can get this home for $150K, I'd do it. Based on what you're saying, I'm not seeing $70K worth of work assuming you're not going crazy with some lavish kitchen, tearing out supporting walls, adding a bathroom, etc.

If it were me, I'd try and do the easier stuff yourself like paint, fix doors, and other easy stuff. Fix the leaky basement, but I wouldn't go absolutely nuts with it unless absolutely necessary. In many cases, leaky basements are an easy fix. If walls are shifting, then that's a big issue and will require some expensive work.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 01:45 PM   #24
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I would pass.. that's a lot of work for not a lot of profit if you plan on flipping it & it sounds like comps are in the 225K range which puts you pretty much breaking even.
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Unread 2017-07-07, 01:54 PM   #25
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I would pass.. that's a lot of work for not a lot of profit if you plan on flipping it & it sounds like comps are in the 225K range which puts you pretty much breaking even.
You're probably right. Although I'm not looking to flip for profit. The value will be proximity to family and getting to be in a different neighborhood.

This could help eliminate or confirm the school district and area we want to live.
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I guess people are doing anything for a quick buck these days. If I wanna vacuum my house butt naked while listening to Darude - Sandstorm with the blinds open, I should be able to without people OUTSIDE giving a fuck.
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