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Unread 2017-03-25, 10:22 PM   #26
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It might not look like much but that's 6 hours of non stop wire brushing and sanding. I'm happy I'm doing this myself because it's tasks like this that are best done by the owner. It's simply elbow grease and time. Any shop would've taken an equal amount of time or simply gone straight to POR15 without the prep work I'm putting in.

I was hoping I'd be able to avoid taking my grinder out but I think I'm going to buy a few grinder disks and take as much as I can down to bare metal before the Marine Cleaner and metal etching spray go down. Do it right or don't do it at all.

Pics from the afternoon (all driver's side; haven't touched passenger side yet:

Rocker area - Driver's side; still tidy as hell:


Another of the rocker:


Driver's side pan under seat after sanding/wire brush:


Another of the Driver's side seat pan area (lowest point of the entire pan), only surface rust:


This is the worst area of the entire pan, driver's side foot well area. That's the e-brake cable leading out to the rear. The pic makes it look a lot worse than it is; a wire wheel will tidy this up nicely:


Driver's side rear ladder bar channel (between it and the B-pillar) post sanding/wire brush:


Another of the ladder bar channel post sanding:


The only three pieces of factory seam seal that failed in 41+ years:
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Unread 2017-03-26, 08:58 AM   #27
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Love the updates. Looks like it's going to be a great project. Love a good mullet machine build.
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Unread 2017-03-26, 10:02 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by so.DOPE View Post
Went I first dumped money in to the car I had plans to make it a strip only car. Ladder bars, while limited in cornering capability are about as ideal as one can get for straight line performance. It's the one thing ladder bars do better than anything else; get power down consistently.

Unfortunately my end goals have changed a lot since 2008. A four link set up might happen someday. I still have reservations against it though because a four link plus all that Detroit Speed frame tech and suspension plus a supercharged Mast Ls7 would literally force me to track days. And simply put...the car is just too important to risk putting it in to a wall around an S-Curve at a track day at 120+ mph. My whole family would be devastated. In a way the ladder bars are a blessing in disguise.
You can also wad it up at the drag strip.



Fair enough. I thought someone was making a torque arm setup for the second gen F-bodies? Seems like that would be a better solution than a 4 link from a packaging standpoint.

Thanks for sharing your progress. it's cool to see stuff like this on KCSR.
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Unread 2017-03-26, 10:04 AM   #29
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Love the updates. Looks like it's going to be a great project. Love a good mullet machine build.
Haha thanks.

Mullet machines are '77 forward though! My dad was a year ahead of the curve; and a good 2 years before Burt Renoylds tarnished them.

Plus, I'm doing my absolute best to take any mullet'ness/mullet confusion out of the equation.

The Cragars don't help my argument lol.
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Unread 2017-03-26, 06:40 PM   #30
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What started off being a simple floor pan massaging has turned in to a complete interior tear down, cowl tear down and firewall clean up (inside and outside). It's turned in to this because I'm going to have a whole two summer's where I'm paying this all off while the car will be ripped apart.

With it being in that state, and since I'm already this far in it only makes sense to rip everything out, lay new heat shield down, prep the firewall and re-wire the whole thing.

And with that Sunday was more deconstruction than anything else; taking special care not do damage any interior pieces, not to break any clips or clamps. It's very time consuming and tedious work and kind of a shame because 8 years ago I paid an interior specialist to finish it and now I'm going in reverse to get at everything I need to.

So today I removed all brake lines, fuel line, power steering line, and the main wiring harness that resided forward of the firewall and inside the engine bay. I also removed the brake booster, heater core, cabin fan assembly, and wiper motor assembly.

I also loosened the fuse box behind the steering wheel, the glove box, most of the air ducting assembly, kick panels, A pillar covers, B pillar covers, roof line trim and other misc. trim pieces.

I also removed the door panels and will be removing the doors this weekend when I have a buddy to assist. The doors on 2nd Gen F Bodies are very heavy and I decided to replace the door hinges with aftermarket strengthened ones. I've heard they don't make them any more so if they don't and I need to save the stock ones I want those doors off while my legs hang out of the car for hours on end over the next few years - give those hinges a rest.

I'll also be removing the dashboard this weekend. I need to do this for a few reasons. 1) To get at the firewall fully, and 2) To remove the heater core. I can't get to that fucker without pulling the entire dashboard out. If it wasn't for this most of what I ended up deciding to rip today out never would have been considered but one thing led to another...
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Unread 2017-03-26, 06:51 PM   #31
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Firewall/Engine Bay: Heater removed, fan assembly removed, wiper assembly removed, brake booster removed, fuel line cut forward of firewall, brake lines removed forward of fire wall, Speedo disconnected, wiring harness (engine bay portion) removed.











The only issue so far that I can't get past is the last bolt holding the master cylinder on. I stripped it and then took a reciprocating saw to it but it's still snug as a bug. I'm replacing the entire assembly with a manual brake system from Wilwood so the shop will just take a torch to it and get the slut off. Fuck it.

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Unread 2017-03-26, 07:07 PM   #32
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Some interior shots:



B Pillar trim removed:


Passenger Door Panel and A Pillar removed:


Passenger B pillar trim removed:


Drivers side door panel removed and steering wheel:


Drivers side door jam and underside:




Passenger side door jam and underside:










Cowl area condition:










Fuse box disconnected. Will be replaced by Ls7 harness. This will all get re-wired; one by one:


Tired suspension:




Time to bag and tag:
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Unread 2017-03-27, 06:41 AM   #33
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Andrew...this is a little off topic, but I'm slightly confused by some of the posts in this (and similar threads).

http://www.kcsr.org/showthread.php?t=162316

http://www.kcsr.org/showthread.php?t=124023
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Unread 2017-03-27, 09:07 AM   #34
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Andrew...this is a little off topic, but I'm slightly confused by some of the posts in this (and similar threads).

http://www.kcsr.org/showthread.php?t=162316

http://www.kcsr.org/showthread.php?t=124023
Yeah it's all fucked. My best friend Arron who lives in Arizona now (who I'm visiting out in Arizona along with you in July) was my roommate through college. The SV was his and I bought it off him for a summer; then we got in a giant fight and just clear things with him I pretty much gave the thing back to him for what I ended up getting from it.
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Unread 2017-03-27, 09:44 AM   #35
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Andrew...this is a little off topic, but I'm slightly confused by some of the posts in this (and similar threads).

http://www.kcsr.org/showthread.php?t=162316

http://www.kcsr.org/showthread.php?t=124023
Dafuq do deeze have to do with this build?
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Unread 2017-03-27, 10:40 AM   #36
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Dafuq do deeze have to do with this build?
Yeah I'm still trying to figure that out.
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Unread 2017-03-27, 10:46 AM   #37
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Dafuq do deeze have to do with this build?
My buddies and I went in on a few builds together, a buddies GSX, a challenger, a camaro over the years. I posted about them all from time to time. Most of them were pretty evenly priced out and we each took turns buying stuff. Just a weekend thing through college. It got messy towards the end with my buddy Arron and I and the challenger project.

So since we were at odds and he moved out...and at that point the challenger project was really the only thread going I completely took over the SN in 2012.
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Unread 2017-03-27, 10:55 AM   #38
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I still don't get the relevance, but that's cool.
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Unread 2017-03-27, 11:00 AM   #39
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What I'm struggling with now is whether to get the entire cowl area sandblasted and smoothed. I'd love to get it done but logistically it makes no sense. I don't have 220 out in my garage nor $2,500 to by a compressor and sand kit.

If I was to have it done the stock frame would have to be taken out so the wall could be blasted correctly by a body shop. Then the old frame would have to go back on to wheel it over to the Speed shop where the frame could get taken off and the new one put on.

This is because I only trust my chassis guy with the sub frame connectors and modifying the ladder bar support between both the front and rear sub frame. All that would be more money in transportation than I'm willing to pay for.

I guess I'll have to settle on having the Speed shop...(which is more of a chassis shop) wheel grind the outside of the wall in between exchanging the old and new frame. I'll also have them wheel grind the small portions of floorpan above the front frame rails and POR15/lizard skin those sections. I can handle the other 75% of the undercarriage.

It's tough doing a 'frame on' resto because of logistic issues like this. Difficult to swallow that pill. It's also kind of scary knowing that that powder coated frame and the suspension joints will be exposed to the debris when body and paint finally get done.
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Unread 2017-03-27, 04:54 PM   #40
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My initial research of rust prevention pointed me in the direction of POR15 like many DIY'ers often do.

Upon talking with a few body buddies I started having reservations, more and more. The final straw was this afternoon when my a buddy saw a facebook post of mine and called me with major concerns.

Without going in to detail; after we spoke I cancelled the POR15 order and cancelled payment.

Here's a link to the thread he referenced:
http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.ph...er.4204/page-3

It's a 3 page read but well worth it if you ever start considering a product such as POR15.

I'm going full epoxy SPI.

Hope this helps someone someday.
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Unread 2017-03-27, 10:12 PM   #41
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Default Wiper arm removal Remove wiper arm 2nd gen firebird Take off wiper arm 1970 firebird

3/27: Nothing too crazy tonight:

- Pulled the trunk off

- Removed wiper blade arms and wiper cowl assembly

- Disconnected power to doors. Ready to be removed.

The wiper arms were the most difficult thing I've ran in to. I shit you not. There is also not a single video on youtube or a single post on the entire internet on how to remove wiper blade arms on a 2nd gen f body either. So here you go:

If you're reading this and ran in to the same problem as I here are a few tips/tricks and overview.

1. First thing you SHOULD do is remove the hood for this. It may sound extreme but mine was already off. I cannot imagine doing this on a 76 T/A with the factory chrome trim without removing the hood.

2. Next, grab some electrical tape and mask your windshield to defend against your tool that you will be torquing on endlessly and carelessly. This won't be easy.

3. Grab a flat head screw driver, the largest ended flat head you have.

4. Approach your car. Belt removed, watch removed; your pants will be pressed against the fender and heat extractor, especially on the passenger side.

5. With the wiper bases (2) STILL attached to the cowl (do not remove the three retaining bolts or this will be impossible extend the passenger wiper up to it's extreme range of motion).

6. There is a small tab (on a '76 T/A at least) that is supposed to relieve tension on the spine of the wiper hub but these cars are 40+ years old now and your wiper arms have likely never been removed before so the tab no longer serves any purpose in this world... Not that it matters but you will see it poking its bastard head out by about 1 millimeter if you get down to eye level with the hub. Anyway, take your screw driver and wedge it against the wiper hub base and turn it like you would a motorcycle throttle. The top of the head of your flat head should be pushing up against the bottom of the wiper arm base (where it lays on the hub). Millimeter by millimeter with each torque you 'do' the arm will slowly lift off of the hub. Eventually it will pop off.

7. Remember to have the arm at its highest point allowed (all three inches of lateral movement because there is a spring that I'm assuming still has some tension and only serves to apply pressure against the hub.

8. Be careful and take your time not to slip. Easy does it. Your windshield is a pricey lad. That electrical tape will save you when you inevitably slip.

You're welcome.
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Unread 2017-03-28, 07:45 AM   #42
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My initial research of rust prevention pointed me in the direction of POR15 like many DIY'ers often do.
No experience with POR15, but I really like Master Series coating. Two coats of silver primer followed by two coats of AG111 in satin black. The AG111 is a 2 part urethane. Best part, you can roll it on with a foam roller so you can DIY.

I have no idea why they have multiple websites, but I've ordered a lot from them and it's legit stuff.

http://www.masterseriescoatings.com/index/

http://masterseriesct.com/

Just another alternative.


Oh, and if you haven't tried them yet, these blow wire wheels out of the water when it comes to paint removal:

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Unread 2017-03-28, 10:41 AM   #43
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I spoke with my chassis guy and let him know how my plans have recently changed in terms of undercarriage prep/cowl prep. I want the whole thing put on a rotisserie and blasted underneath and then SPI epoxy primered and painted. I have approx. $7,000 left for whatever I'm going to get done.

My chassis guy has a buddy who blasts cars and does this for him. Depending on the cost of the blast estimate...it's possible I may put the sub frame in storage and use the funds I was going to spend on the frame install and connectors towards the blast and epoxy.

I'm starting to understand why so many project car guys believe that the journey is more important than the destination.
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Unread 2017-03-28, 01:44 PM   #44
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No way I'd have the patience for some of this magnitude.
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Unread 2017-03-29, 09:47 AM   #45
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No way I'd have the patience for some of this magnitude.
Every time I've had the thing on a lift getting a clutch replaced or when the rear suspension was done in 2008 everyone told me how solid the car was. How immaculate it was. Factory overspray, spot welds, factory markings still present.

The problem I ran in to was one thing led to another. I don't have the money for a full on restoration nor does the car NEED one. But it's in a state where "I'm already 'here' so why not spend a little extra cash now and massage things a bit".

It's a difficult place to be in with a $10,000 frame on the way but if this turns in to a 10 year project so be it.

Still waiting on the estimate. I hope to get some kind of treatment for the undercarriage. Something between a full sand blast and spray vs. doing nothing at all. Something that I'll be comfortable with and happy with moving forward.

That will be my next update in the thread. Frame gets delivered to the shop in 3 weeks. Engine mounts are 1 day away from arriving at my house.

Thank you for following.
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Unread 2017-03-29, 01:31 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 77Nova View Post
No experience with POR15, but I really like Master Series coating. Two coats of silver primer followed by two coats of AG111 in satin black. The AG111 is a 2 part urethane. Best part, you can roll it on with a foam roller so you can DIY.

I have no idea why they have multiple websites, but I've ordered a lot from them and it's legit stuff.

http://www.masterseriescoatings.com/index/

http://masterseriesct.com/

Just another alternative.


Oh, and if you haven't tried them yet, these blow wire wheels out of the water when it comes to paint removal:

Thanks! I'll look in to those when I attack the firewall myself.
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Unread 2017-03-29, 02:05 PM   #47
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These guys work good too, and made stripping my firewall easy all things considered: http://www.tcpglobal.com/MMM-7461.ht...Q#.WNwFPvnytaQ

You will go through quite a few of them though.
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Unread 2017-03-30, 10:01 AM   #48
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3/29:

Removed:
Headliner, tail lights, rear spoiler, trunk carpet, visors, interior dome light and some wiring.

A few logistics are starting to materialize in terms of where the car is going, in what order and when it's due...where: To simplify things for the chassis builder I'm sending the car out to have it stripped of the following things at a buddies shop near my home.

Motor, trans. trans support, master cylinder, steering column, fuel lines, brake lines, e-Brake cable, gas tank, rear bumper, and exhaust.

In exchange, I'm giving him my old Pontiac 400. Straight up flip. I'm keeping the old master cylinder, mufflers, bumper, steering column and trans. support.

From there the car is getting sent out to get blasted. I'm most definitely getting the undercarriage blasted and SPI epoxied. Depending on the cost of the undercarriage blast and spray I'll have either the trunk blasted and painted, the interior blasted and painted or a combination of the three; whatever fits in to my budget still setting aside monies for the sub frame install, tunnel and connectors. Whatever I don't get blasted and painted this go-round will have to wait until next year. From calling around the going rate for sand blasting costs 180 per hour + setting the vehicle in position ($60). Over the phone, I was quoted for 5 hrs for the undercarriage (~$1000). I was not quoted for the epoxy spray. My chassis guy has a friend who may be cheaper...again, waiting on an estimate.

From there the car is going to the chassis shop to have the new sub frame installed and T56 tunnel cut.

From there it's coming back home where I will address the firewall and cowl areas.

Apparently my Detroit Speed LS7 engine mounts arrived at my house a moment ago.

Fun times.
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Unread 2017-03-30, 12:27 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by so.DOPE View Post
Every time I've had the thing on a lift getting a clutch replaced or when the rear suspension was done in 2008 everyone told me how solid the car was. How immaculate it was. Factory overspray, spot welds, factory markings still present.

The problem I ran in to was one thing led to another. I don't have the money for a full on restoration nor does the car NEED one. But it's in a state where "I'm already 'here' so why not spend a little extra cash now and massage things a bit".

It's a difficult place to be in with a $10,000 frame on the way but if this turns in to a 10 year project so be it.

Still waiting on the estimate. I hope to get some kind of treatment for the undercarriage. Something between a full sand blast and spray vs. doing nothing at all. Something that I'll be comfortable with and happy with moving forward.

That will be my next update in the thread. Frame gets delivered to the shop in 3 weeks. Engine mounts are 1 day away from arriving at my house.

Thank you for following.
Its crazy how it goes with the "While your in there" type stuff. This is what happened with my mom's bike. I ended up doing a full blown restoration on the bike.
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Unread 2017-04-01, 05:04 PM   #50
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3/31 - Weather blows. In preparation for blasting and spray, disassembly continued:

Car leaves for engine/trans. and final strip on April 18th. As of April 1st, I still need to remove the dash, some wiring and heater core. I may even get around to dropping the tank and what remains of the fuel and brake lines if I feel comfortable enough getting her off all fours and on to jack stands. We'll see.

On 3/31: I removed the rear deck, speakers and a few misc. trim pieces. A buddy stopped over in the afternoon to assist in the removal of the doors and storage. They are heavy as shit. The Ring Brothers make a reinforced hinge for second gens for about $700. I might pick up a pair later this year. Grab them while you can. They are the only alternative to repo OEM.

I planned on getting the dash out on Saturday but weather was too shitty to work outside so we pulled the doors off and quit for the day. I have another friend driving in from out of town to assist with the dash either on Sunday or sometime this week. Fingers crossed for less rain.













D.S.E/ Ls7 Engine Mount:








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