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Unread 2018-11-08, 03:59 PM   #101
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I fail to understand why either side wants complete control of all 3 branches of the government. Well I mean I get why they want it but I fail to see why citizens want it or think it's a good thing. Why do we want a single ideology in all three branches? Why on earth would anyone think that's a good thing unless they are closed minded?
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Unread 2018-11-08, 04:24 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by BuddyLee View Post
I fail to understand why either side wants complete control of all 3 branches of the government. Well I mean I get why they want it but I fail to see why citizens want it or think it's a good thing. Why do we want a single ideology in all three branches? Why on earth would anyone think that's a good thing unless they are closed minded?
My thought is that in theory, it should be a smoother operation, right? Agendas will be able to move without much resistance. And considering how much waste there is in the government, it’s appealing to think that without resistance, we wouldn’t squander such vast resources es.
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Unread 2018-11-08, 04:48 PM   #103
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My thought is that in theory, it should be a smoother operation, right? Agendas will be able to move without much resistance. And considering how much waste there is in the government, it’s appealing to think that without resistance, we wouldn’t squander such vast resources es.
That's what they want. The problem is, it's one-sided policy. The best policy for the people is crafted based on compromise between the two parties. Unfortunately, neither side is willing to compromise and instead, fight and accomplish nothing.

Edit: My hope for Kansas now, with a GOP legislature and a Dem Gov., is that they'll respect each others power and compromise to provide the best policy for the state. Given the fact that the overwhelming GOP majorities mustered 2/3 in both chambers to override Brownback's veto on taxes, I'm fairly confident in their ability to place partisanship behind doing what's best for the state.
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Unread 2018-11-08, 04:53 PM   #104
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Science directly points to evidence of a higher being more so than us being here strictly by chance, imo..
No, it does not. This is a blatant lie. Science admits they cannot show evidence of their being no god, but there is no evidence of "intelligent design" or whatever you want to call creationism now to make it sound sciencey.
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Unread 2018-11-08, 04:56 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by BuddyLee View Post
I fail to understand why either side wants complete control of all 3 branches of the government. Well I mean I get why they want it but I fail to see why citizens want it or think it's a good thing. Why do we want a single ideology in all three branches? Why on earth would anyone think that's a good thing unless they are closed minded?
You just answered your own question.

They're also scared to death of losing their dominance. Both sides have been told if the other "wins", it will be the death of them. Fear is the common denominator here.
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Unread 2018-11-08, 04:57 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by BuddyLee View Post
I fail to understand why either side wants complete control of all 3 branches of the government. Well I mean I get why they want it but I fail to see why citizens want it or think it's a good thing. Why do we want a single ideology in all three branches? Why on earth would anyone think that's a good thing unless they are closed minded?
Because they are right? I dont mean in the literal sense, in their belief. They believe their side has the answer. Its groupthink. Its why the govt was setup to be dysfunctional, because groupthink is dangerous. Unfortunately it wasn't structured in a way where, to have power, you would need a coalition. Or at least it wasn't made properly to prevent it from being that way.

Germany figured this out the long way after groupthink, well, we all know the history. So their govt is structured in a way where its virtually impossible for any one group to get a majority and, as a result, they have to court other groups to get anything done. It "waters down" any ideology.

Unfortunately we are going down the former path. Its all about "our team." There is no compromise anymore.
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Unread 2018-11-08, 05:03 PM   #107
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No, it does not. This is a blatant lie. Science admits they cannot show evidence of their being no god, but there is no evidence of "intelligent design" or whatever you want to call creationism now to make it sound sciencey.
I highly disagree. If you give me just a little bit of your time in the other thread, I'll tell you why. I promise it's not some bs plea or preaching to get you to believe. That's not my intention at all. I'll give you science based facts that infer a creator without resorting to the bible. Btw, I'm not a creationist or a intelligent design theorist, so no worries there.
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Unread 2018-11-08, 05:10 PM   #108
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Again, show me where I....I being the key word here, POISONED the thread.
You just pointed out the very thing I was saying. In everyone of those someone else mentions religion first. Hence, threads never stay on course.
Forgive me if I'm ready to call you out on your (not you specifically) bullshit, when trying to use religion as a reason why people do this or that.
I never said you couldn't discuss morals as an atheist. I'm simply saying you don't have a leg to stand on, when morality can be whatever you want it to be without someone/something of higher authority to set a standard in which the conversation can start from. If you think I'm wrong then point out why in the truth/religion thread. If not, I won't say another word about it.........until someone else does��
Bro, he just pointed a handful of incidents where you poisoned and derailed those threads off topic and into another one of your Christian/creationist "crusades.



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I discussed all of this in the first 2 or 3 pages in the truth/religion thread.
Science directly points to evidence of a higher being more so than us being here strictly by chance, imo.
No, Science/ the Scientific community as a whole disagrees with their being evidence of a higher being.

See those three letters at the end of your claim? That means simply "Its my opinion that from the way I interpret science, I believe it points to evidence of a higher being"
Stop trying to make your opinions sound like they are indeed fact and have legitimate sources behind them.
Its like you "putting words in the scientific communities mouth" so to speak and it really discredits your argument/point.

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Originally Posted by torqueburner View Post
I highly disagree. If you give me just a little bit of your time in the other thread, I'll tell you why. I promise it's not some bs plea or preaching to get you to believe. That's not my intention at all. I'll give you science based facts that infer a creator without resorting to the bible. Btw, I'm not a creationist or a intelligent design theorist, so no worries there.

Are these science based facts going to be actual facts with legit sources? or are they going to be your opinions or views on said scientific facts?

Also, not a creationist? about a year ago you were pretty outspoken self proclaimed creationist? what changed? (other than your improved gramnar and spelling, good job on that btw)



ALSO,

Here you go poisoning and derailing a thread into another bullshit tangent of yours. Reinforcing Ryan's original point.
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Unread 2018-11-08, 05:27 PM   #109
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Bro, he just pointed a handful of incidents where you poisoned and derailed those threads off topic and into another one of your Christian/creationist "crusades.


No, Science/ the Scientific community as a whole disagrees with their being evidence of a higher being.

See those three letters at the end of your claim? That means simply "Its my opinion that from the way I interpret science, I believe it points to evidence of a higher being"
Stop trying to make your opinions sound like they are indeed fact and have legitimate sources behind them.
Its like you "putting words in the scientific communities mouth" so to speak and it really discredits your argument/point.




Are these science based facts going to be actual facts with legit sources? or are they going to be your opinions or views on said scientific facts?

Also, not a creationist? about a year ago you were pretty outspoken self proclaimed creationist? what changed?



ALSO,

Here you go poisoning and derailing a thread into another bullshit tangent of yours. Reinforcing Ryan's original point.
.
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Unread 2018-11-08, 06:27 PM   #110
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-minority-rule

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Democrats got millions more votes – so how did Republicans win the Senate?

Senate electoral process means although Democrats received more overall votes for the Senate than Republicans, that does not translate to more seats

The 2018 midterm elections brought significant gains for Democrats, who retook the House of Representatives and snatched several governorships from the grip of Republicans.

But some were left questioning why Democrats suffered a series of setbacks that prevented the party from picking up even more seats and, perhaps most consequentially, left the US Senate in Republican hands.

Among the most eye-catching was a statistic showing Democrats led Republicans by more than 12 million votes in Senate races, and yet still suffered losses on the night and failed to win a majority of seats in the chamber.

Constitutional experts said the discrepancy between votes cast and seats won was the result of misplaced ire that ignored the Senate electoral process.

Because each state gets two senators, irrespective of population, states such as Wyoming have as many seats as California, despite the latter having more than 60 times the population. The smaller states also tend to be the more rural, and rural areas traditionally favor Republicans.

This year, because Democrats were defending more seats, including California, they received more overall votes for the Senate than Republicans, but that does not translate to more seats.

However, some expressed frustration with a system they suggest gives an advantage to conservative-leaning states.

The rise of minority rule in America is now unmistakable
Laurence Tribe, Harvard professor
The real concerns for Democrats, they said, could be found in a combination of gerrymandering and voter suppression tactics that might have prevented them from winning an even larger majority in the House and some key statewide elections.

“The rise of minority rule in America is now unmistakable,” said Laurence Tribe, a constitutional law professor at Harvard University.

“Especially with a sitting president who won a majority in the electoral college [in 2016] while receiving roughly 3m fewer votes than his opponent, and a supreme court five of whose nine justices were nominated by Republican presidents who collectively received fewer popular votes than their Democratic opponents and were confirmed by Senates similarly skewed.”

According to the latest data, Democrats won the House popular vote by about seven percentage points in Tuesday night’s midterms.

They picked up 29 Republican-held seats in the House, while losing two of their own incumbents, resulting in a net gain of 27 seats. Republicans meanwhile won a larger majority in the Senate, picking up at least two seats as a handful of vulnerable Democrats faced defeat.

The mixed result undermined Democratic hopes of a blue wave in an election billed as a referendum on Donald Trump and his presidency. In the 2010 midterms, by contrast, Republicans stormed into control of the House with a haul of 63 seats.

But the latter was the result of partisan gerrymandering, which saw Republican-controlled state legislatures redraw congressional districts to favor the party in what conservative architects dubbed as Redmap, short for the Redistricting Majority Project.

It was for this very reason that Tuesday night’s governor’s contests were deemed by Democrats as equally, if not more, important. With the next redrawing of district lines set to take place in 2020, it was regarded as vital for Democrats to win back seats in state legislatures across the country.

Democrats made gains in some must-win states, including Michigan, but fell short in other battlegrounds, such as Florida and Ohio. David Daley, author of a 2016 book about how Republicans built a firewall against Democrats through redistricting, said he was not sure Democrats had done enough on Tuesday “to ensure that they have a reasonable voice in the process”.

Elsewhere, progressives lamented the results in the Senate, where some commentators were quick to note that Democrats led the overall tally by double-digit percentage points. The most recent figures had Republicans holding 51 seats and Democrats with just 46, with a handful of races still too close to call.

But the 2018 Senate map was unfavorable for Democrats going into the midterms – the party was defending 26 seats compared with Republicans’ nine – and the outcome had more to do with which states were up for grabs.

Each of America’s 50 states elects two senators, regardless of population, and only a third of the country’s Senate seats are voted on each election cycle.

What that means is that California, which has a population of just under 40 million, holds the same representation in the Senate as Wyoming, which at roughly 579,000 is the least populous state in the country.

“That’s a radically undemocratic principle, and it gives rise to what we see,” said David Golove, a professor at the New York University School of Law, “which is that the minority populations are going to have a disproportionate impact in the United States. That tends to mean conservatives have a disproportionate influence over the Senate.”

Because the Senate map changes every two years, experts said, it was also difficult to tabulate what a national vote might look like. Since more Democratic seats were up for re-election in 2018, some argued, it was not unexpected that the party secured more votes.

“The Senate is inherently anti-majoritarian,” said Erwin Chemerinsky, the dean of Berkeley Law at the University of California. “So it is not about the total vote, but votes in each state.”

Any notion of change would require a constitutional amendment, he added, which is unlikely to occur in the foreseeable future.

Arguably more tangible than the historic construct of America’s electoral process was the role voter suppression might have played in some big Democratic losses.

In North Dakota, voter ID rules pushed by Republicans and upheld by the supreme court may have barred thousands of Native Americans from voting in Tuesday’s general election. The restrictions required that voters show their current residential address in order to vote. But many Native Americans who live on reservations do not have street names and instead use PO boxes.

In 2012, the state’s incumbent Democrat, Senator Heidi Heitkamp, was elected in part due to the support of Native American voters. She lost on Tuesday to her Republican challenger, Kevin Cramer, although the margin was large enough to suggest voter suppression tactics alone did not cost Heitkamp the race.

The closely watched governor’s race in Georgia, however, told a more contentious story, as the Democrat Stacey Abrams vied to become the first black woman elected governor in US history. Abrams was running against the Republican Brian Kemp, who as Georgia’s sitting secretary of state remained at the helm of the office tasked with overseeing its elections.

Leading up to the election, Kemp’s office put at least 53,000 voter registrations on hold – the majority of which applied to black voters – citing Georgia’s so-called “exact match” law. The restrictions could have prevented thousands of eligible voters from casting ballots due to minor discrepancies with other identification documents that included missing hyphens, middle initials or accent marks in a name.

Abrams, who narrowly trailed Kemp as returns poured in on Tuesday, refused to concede.

“We are going to make sure that every vote is counted, every single vote,” she said. “In a civilized nation, the machinery of democracy should work for everyone, everywhere.”
12 million. I guess now they're the amoral minority.
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Unread 2018-11-08, 08:20 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by BuddyLee View Post
I fail to understand why either side wants complete control of all 3 branches of the government. Well I mean I get why they want it but I fail to see why citizens want it or think it's a good thing. Why do we want a single ideology in all three branches? Why on earth would anyone think that's a good thing unless they are closed minded?
I’d go for the mixture of Ryan’s post on groupthink and add in some of the naivety and close mindedness.

And most people who don’t fall into the above, and believe in the way they tried to setup our government probably think that a Supreme Court with a mixture of opinions is a good thing. (Not overwhelming in any direction), as well as a pretty even mixture of Congress. It would be nice to have a Legislative branch which worked together with the Executive branch to find solutions, in a respectful way...

But I think caring for each other and respecting each other is lost in America.
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Unread 2018-11-10, 04:02 PM   #112
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Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

Video URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_stZTPZpNO4

Why do none of you talk about things that actually matter?
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Unread 2018-11-10, 06:40 PM   #113
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You mean like Florida trying to steal another election from the GOP.
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Unread 2018-11-10, 08:01 PM   #114
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You mean like Florida trying to steal another election from the GOP.
Yes, they're trying to steal an election by actually counting all the votes.

But yea, this specific issue. This is major and crickets from you guys.

You'd all rather talk about who uses more social programs or which one of your teams is the better one while we have blatant rights being violated and elections trying to be stolen, regardless of your perspective on which party is the one trying to steal it.
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Unread 2018-11-10, 08:08 PM   #115
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/10/polit...lum/index.html

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Florida recounts begin as tensions escalate across state

The counting is over. Now, the recounting begins.

More than three days after the polls closed in Florida, the secretary of state announced on Saturday afternoon that the razor-thin races for governor, senator and agriculture commissioner will be reviewed in a series of recounts.

According to unofficial results filed by the counties, Republican Gov. Rick Scott leads incumbent Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson by more than 12,500 votes, or about .15%. The spread in the governor's race is larger, with Republican former Rep. Ron DeSantis ahead of Democratic Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum by nearly 34,000 votes, for a lead of .41%. In the narrowest contest, Democratic agriculture commissioner candidate Nikki Fried's advantage stands at 5,326 votes — just .06% — over Republican Matt Caldwell.

With the margins in all three contests at under .5%, the votes are now being recounted by machine. That process must be finished by 3 p.m. on Thursday. Races within .25% will then go to a hand recount of overvotes and undervotes. An overvote means a voter selected more than the allotted options on the ballot; an undervote means a vote selected fewer than the available choices or, in these races, none. The Senate race and the contest for agriculture commissioner both currently both fall within .25%.

Hours after the recount was formally set in motion, Gillum surprised supporters by withdrawing the concession he offered DeSantis on election night.

"I am replacing my words of concession with an uncompromised and unapologetic call we count every single vote," he said at a news conference in Tallahassee. DeSantis in a subsequent video statement said he would continue on with his transition plans and called the initial results "clear and unambiguous."

On the Senate side, Scott's campaign welcomed the recount by calling on Nelson to opt out of it, which is his option under state law.

"It's time for Senator Nelson to accept reality and spare the state of the Florida the time, expense and discord of a recount," said Scott spokesman Chris Hartline.

Nelson, however, showed no signs of backing down.

"We believe when every legal ballot is counted, we'll win this election," he said in a statement.

During a call with reporters later in the day, Marc Elias, his top recount lawyer, predicted that Scott's lead would shrink during the machine recount -- along with the tabulation of overseas and military ballots -- and then "evaporate entirely" after the more thorough hand review was completed.

While the politicians and lawyers jockeyed to shape the narrative and activists kicked off new protests this weekend, demonstrators pooled on the streets outside the Broward County Supervisor of Elections Office for a second straight day. Again, they targeted Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes, chanting "lock her up" as she and others worked inside trying to finish the initial vote count before a noon deadline.

There were also more heated confrontations between protesters -- many in "Make America Great Again" hats -- and an increasing number of Democrats, most notably Gillum supporters, before and after the recount was formally called.

Scott had escalated already rising tensions across the state on Thursday night, when news conference he took a page from President Donald Trump and, without citing any evidence, accused "left-wing activists in Broward County" of trying to steal the election for Nelson. The county, in deep-blue portion of South Florida, is notoriously slow in counting its votes and as its tally mounted, Scott's lead had predictably diminished. In a series of tweets on Friday, Trump picked up the thread and accused the Democrats of attempting "Election Theft in Broward and Palm Beach Counties." After the official recount was announced on Saturday, Trump again tweeted, "Trying to STEAL two big elections in Florida! We are watching closely!"

Scott's request for an investigation into election-related fraud did not go far.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement said on Friday it was told by the Department of State, which is run by a Republican Scott-appointee, that they had received "no allegation of criminal activity." On Saturday, the agency's elections division told CNN that two internal observers had "seen no evidence of criminal activity."
Still, Scott's campaign issued an ominous-sounding statement "encouraging every Florida Sheriff to watch for any violations and take appropriate action."

Meanwhile, the Nelson campaign is plowing ahead with a lawsuit against the state over its process for validating vote-by-mail ballots. Elias has argued that Florida's signature-matching process put an undue onus on the "untrained opinions" of poll workers, which led to a "complete lack of uniformity" in how the ballots were being judged.

On Saturday, Elias told reporters he believed a decision in Nelson's favor could "add thousands of additional ballots that have so far gone uncounted" to the equation.

"We have sought a statewide remedy because we believe that all voters -- whether they voted for Sen. Nelson or for Gov. Scott -- should not be disenfranchised because an election worker doesn't believe that their signature in two different places are closely resembling," he said.
There is a court hearing scheduled for Wednesday.

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham has also injected himself into the fight, alleging on Thursday and Friday -- like Scott and the President, with no proof -- that there are "shenanigans going on in Broward and Palm Beach" before suggesting that a sinister cabal of liberals from Washington was at work trying to rig the election. In fact, out-of-state lawyers from both parties, including a handful who had significant roles 18 years ago, have been flocking to Florida ahead of the recount.

Leading a call for Scott's campaign on Saturday, Graham touted Scott's legal team and again skewered Broward and Palm Beach election officials for their lack of transparency.

"Rick has a good team of lawyers," Graham said. "Lawyers are not going to decide this race, the voters will. I support every valid vote being counted. But I also support the rule of law when it comes to voting."
Around the state on Friday, allegations and rumors of misplaced or lost votes fueled simmering anger and confusion as the campaigns, lawyers, operatives and freelance rabble-rousers girded themselves for a re-run of the pitched partisan combat that took over the state during the 2000 presidential recount.

Outside a mail distribution center in Miami-Dade County, a group of activists with images they said showed undelivered ballots inside tried and failed to get a meeting with a supervisor. Later in the day, a spokeswoman for the US Postal Service said it was "researching the matter to verify that all ballots have been handled in accordance to USPS service standards."

The Postal Service did not immediately respond to a request for an update on Saturday. Elias confirmed Saturday that Nelson's team was tracking concerns about the facility.

Detailed updates on the state of the race had been hard to come by ahead of Sunday's noon reporting deadline, leading Scott to successfully sue top election officials in Broward and Palm Beach Counties for information on the total votes cast and how many of them had been canvassed.

In Broward, Brenda Snipes turned over information to Scott and his team for review late Friday. But before midnight, the campaign pushed out a new press release claiming Snipes had not fully complied with the court order "because she refuses to confirm whether or not additional ballots exist that must be counted."

Adding to Broward County's troubles, a CNN analysis of votes cast there suggests that ballot design could be responsible for a substantial difference in the number of votes cast between the race for governor and the race for senator in Florida.
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Unread 2018-11-10, 09:07 PM   #116
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Yep. Violating the voting rights of all those noncitizens. I wonder how many russians voted in the florida elections.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/11/10/gillum-nelson-non-citizen-vote/

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Unread 2018-11-11, 03:57 PM   #117
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LOL the daily caller. Its basically a right-leaning national enquirer.
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Unread 2018-11-11, 07:40 PM   #118
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Making fun of the media source doesnt make what they are reporting not true.
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Unread 2018-11-11, 08:01 PM   #119
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Making fun of the media source doesnt make what they are reporting not true.






Edit - National Enquirer does not qualify as a “news source.” It’s a gossip rag.
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Unread 2018-11-12, 09:43 AM   #120
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The Florida story here is how can one state, fuck up their election counting time after time after time. How fucking hard is it to keep track of and count all the ballots? It's not rocket science. Yet this one state seems to fuck it up continually.
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Unread 2018-11-12, 11:24 AM   #121
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^^ They don't F it up, they are trying to produce a certain result.

AZ is doing the same thing, they "found" 500K ballots.
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Unread 2018-11-12, 01:57 PM   #122
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The Florida story here is how can one state, fuck up their election counting time after time after time. How fucking hard is it to keep track of and count all the ballots? It's not rocket science. Yet this one state seems to fuck it up continually.
Some of the mistakes Im certain others are doing it but they arent ever close enough to trigger a recount or audit. Florida is always on the fence so it comes up more often.
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Unread 2018-11-12, 03:22 PM   #123
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Count all the votes!!!!

They better count the 10,000 Votes I am sending down there for them to count.
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Unread 2018-11-12, 05:53 PM   #124
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You mean like Florida trying to steal another election from the GOP.
the state gov't that's doing the recounting is run by the GOP... so your argument is that the Florida GOP is trying to steal another election from the Florida GOP?

the only way that I can accept that is if they hire you as their new Baghdad Bob due to your willingness to turn off all critical thinking skills when it comes to repeating talking points.

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-pol...f-voter-fraud/
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Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi strongly urged state police Sunday to investigate Republican claims of voter fraud in Broward and Palm Beach counties — a day after the Florida Department of Law Enforcement said it found no evidence of it.
...The Secretary of State said again Sunday that there was no evidence of fraud.
...Swearingen, who owes his job to Scott, Bondi and the two other members of the Florida Cabinet.
...Detzner's office said again Sunday night that observers have found no evidence of fraud...
so the GOP-led FDLE says no fraud, the GOP SoS says no fraud, the guy who leads FDLE owes his job to the Scott personally and still says that, etc

I didn't think anyone could make up rumors this stupid much less have others repeat them with a straight face
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Unread 2018-11-12, 07:42 PM   #125
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GOP, GOP, GOP yea, McCain and Flake were GOP also. The lady Snipes, in charge of the recount is a Dem hack. They are delivering truck loads of ballots in the middle of the night to be counted. There is no chain of custody for the ballots either. They are kicking the media out of the counting facilities and covering their tracks.

If you broaden your reading maybe you will understand what is going on. These are all tests to see what they can get away with in the 2020 elections.

They were caught mixing invalid ballots with good ballots, counting votes from non-citizens etc. I would love to see all of this investigated but it will all be ignored just like "Lying Ford" from the Kav hearings.
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