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Unread 2010-11-16, 12:08 PM   #1
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Default Anyone Own rental proerty?

I am wondering who here owns 1 or more rental houses.

I am looking at getting into it with a town home and had some questions.
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Unread 2010-11-16, 12:24 PM   #2
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I do now, this is my first, but my old man has owned them for years. What are you wanting to know?
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Unread 2010-11-16, 12:31 PM   #3
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My wife manages real estate for a living.
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Unread 2010-11-16, 12:46 PM   #4
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I wanted to know from someone who has been through this a time or two so I know what im getting into.

-How much monthly "profit" should you expect monthly to make the deal worhtwhile.
Ie Rental income - mortgage,insurance,property taxes.

What im looking at right now is
600-650 month in expenses and potential rent being 700-750
seems kinda low to be worth it.

Also interested in putting money into a real estate trust with a bunch of other investors. Not a traditional REIT but more like a local group of investors.

KC_SI could you ask the wife how investors and real estate management companies hook up?
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Unread 2010-11-16, 02:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasman18 View Post
I wanted to know from someone who has been through this a time or two so I know what im getting into.

-How much monthly "profit" should you expect monthly to make the deal worhtwhile.
Ie Rental income - mortgage,insurance,property taxes.

What im looking at right now is
600-650 month in expenses and potential rent being 700-750
seems kinda low to be worth it.

Also interested in putting money into a real estate trust with a bunch of other investors. Not a traditional REIT but more like a local group of investors.

KC_SI could you ask the wife how investors and real estate management companies hook up?
A lot of the benefit comes from the Tax Deductions you are able to take for the depreciation value of your property. You get a credit every year for the wear and tear of things like your roof, floors, appliances, stuff like that. I am currently not even going to be able to turn a profit of any kind of my property, but to me I would rather pay $200 out of pocket a month for my KC house than the full $1050 for both mortgages.

My Dad was able to make a profit pretty easily on some of his properties, but that is because he would find houses that were trashed and pay cash for them, say $25k, put $20k in them again in cash, so his investment was immediately returning him usable cash.

Where are you looking to rent this place? My only advice is to list yours house on Craigslist. I got like 20 hits for good renters within 12 hours. It was rented within a week...
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Unread 2010-11-16, 02:35 PM   #6
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Just make sure your renters are not low life pieces of shit that literally destroy a house so you have to put 15,000+ into it just to make a profit to sell it.
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Unread 2010-11-16, 05:28 PM   #7
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I would stay away from rental properties in terms of houses, condos, etc.

If you want to run a rental business of any sort to turn a profit, I would look into storage units and/or commercial rental properties.
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Unread 2010-11-16, 05:31 PM   #8
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A lot of the benefit comes from the Tax Deductions you are able to take for the depreciation value of your property. You get a credit every year for the wear and tear of things like your roof, floors, appliances, stuff like that. I am currently not even going to be able to turn a profit of any kind of my property, but to me I would rather pay $200 out of pocket a month for my KC house than the full $1050 for both mortgages.

My Dad was able to make a profit pretty easily on some of his properties, but that is because he would find houses that were trashed and pay cash for them, say $25k, put $20k in them again in cash, so his investment was immediately returning him usable cash.

Where are you looking to rent this place? My only advice is to list yours house on Craigslist. I got like 20 hits for good renters within 12 hours. It was rented within a week...

seems to me like the depreciation isnt that much money.
take a 120k house
subtract land value +/- 10k
110k / 27.5 years (maximum depreciation recovery period) = 4k tax deduction per year.
That wont move me into another tax bracket.

you are going to pay more in your mortgage interest
let alone a standard deduction being 11k for married filing jointly.

I could be wrong on some of this stuff but I want to learn more, hence my questions.
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Unread 2010-11-16, 09:31 PM   #9
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Just make sure your renters are not low life pieces of shit that literally destroy a house so you have to put 15,000+ into it just to make a profit to sell it.

This.

I was looking at geting into it but dont have the time. A guy here at work makes more money off his rental property than he does here. He easily makes 80k here. He says he purchases a place puts all new furnace, ac, water heater ect and has a retainer on a handyman. That way he has someone available 24/7 should a problem arise. He also only rents to single men or married couples (after they've been together for a couple years and the fighting is mostly over) He says women destroy shit and arent upfront about it. He also says he has no problem punching a guy in his mouth if he lies/BS about not making a payment.
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Unread 2010-11-16, 09:47 PM   #10
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This.

I was looking at geting into it but dont have the time. A guy here at work makes more money off his rental property than he does here. He easily makes 80k here. He says he purchases a place puts all new furnace, ac, water heater ect and has a retainer on a handyman. That way he has someone available 24/7 should a problem arise. He also only rents to single men or married couples (after they've been together for a couple years and the fighting is mostly over) He says women destroy shit and arent upfront about it. He also says he has no problem punching a guy in his mouth if he lies/BS about not making a payment.
Our last renters pretty much destroyed our property. Sure it wasn't fancy, but it was a nice $60-70,000 dollar home in Grandview. We are short selling it now because we are lucky if we can get $25,000 for the house. Holes in walls, holes in doors, trash through out the house, doors ripped off of kitchen drawers, roaches, carpet was pretty white, now you can see where the TV stand was because there is a white spot, and it is black all around it.

Just be VERY careful on who you let rent from you.
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Unread 2010-11-16, 10:13 PM   #11
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Our last renters pretty much destroyed our property. Sure it wasn't fancy, but it was a nice $60-70,000 dollar home in Grandview. We are short selling it now because we are lucky if we can get $25,000 for the house. Holes in walls, holes in doors, trash through out the house, doors ripped off of kitchen drawers, roaches, carpet was pretty white, now you can see where the TV stand was because there is a white spot, and it is black all around it.

Just be VERY careful on who you let rent from you.
You never checked up on them? Or did they do this all when they bailed out??
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Unread 2010-11-16, 10:45 PM   #12
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How long were they there? Thats nuts man.
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Unread 2010-11-17, 06:02 AM   #13
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You never checked up on them? Or did they do this all when they bailed out??
Nope, sadly we trusted somebody we shouldn't have. As for the damage, not sure exactly when it happened. Could have happened after we started telling them to get the fuck out.

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How long were they there? Thats nuts man.
1 year.

Single mother with a 21 year old son, and a 18 year old daughter.
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Unread 2010-11-17, 07:33 AM   #14
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That sucks Lance. My parents have rental properties but they buy them at foreclosure and sheriff auctions for pretty cheap. On to of that my dad used to own his own remodeling company so they save a ton of money by not having to hire anyone to come in. Of suggest flipping houses over renting them but I'm not sure either is the best way to make money right now. My parents rented a house they had just remodeled to the people across the street because their house burnt down and they hate. My parents have gotten warnings from the city of Olathe because the people have trashed the yard. I know they are pretty stressed about what the interior looks like since it has brand new carpet, cabinets and such.
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Unread 2010-11-17, 02:04 PM   #15
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Nope, sadly we trusted somebody we shouldn't have. As for the damage, not sure exactly when it happened. Could have happened after we started telling them to get the fuck out.



1 year.

Single mother with a 21 year old son, and a 18 year old daughter.
That would really suck if the house burned down and you collected the insurance money on it. Being as its unoccupied right now, and in grandview I am sure there is a possibility that someone would squat on it and accidently burn it down while doing some drugs or something...
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Unread 2010-11-17, 03:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by 01fordgazguzler View Post
This.

I was looking at geting into it but dont have the time. A guy here at work makes more money off his rental property than he does here. He easily makes 80k here. He says he purchases a place puts all new furnace, ac, water heater ect and has a retainer on a handyman. That way he has someone available 24/7 should a problem arise. He also only rents to single men or married couples (after they've been together for a couple years and the fighting is mostly over) He says women destroy shit and arent upfront about it. He also says he has no problem punching a guy in his mouth if he lies/BS about not making a payment.
I've just started getting into the rental game and this is good advice. First place I bought was a 2 family w/ another person. We "inherited" a tennant, who was allgedly paying $500/mo on a month to month basis. We didn't mind, becuase we figured it was $$ in our pocket while updating the second floor. Single mom, late 20's w/ a baby, no daddy around. Well, long story short, she paid us once over the course of 5 mos, $390, cash, the last $90 in singles.

The first day we moved in, we gave her 5 contact # to call if there were ever ANY issues. Well, we were updating the bathroom on the second floor and apparently there was a leak. We had left for the night. We get a call over 36 hours later, the ceiling had collapsed in the second floor bathroom from the water build-up. We get in there and she is screaming like mad about the bathroom. at this point, she was 2 months behind rent!

It was a nightmare, with all differnt types of people over at all hours. Around 3 mos later after the last actual contact, she writes a note that she is out and not paying the other 4 mos rent. At this point, we were just happy she left. We gave it another couple days, didn't see anyone and went in. The place was disgusting. I actually felt sorry for her 4 year old son, that was no way/enviornment to raise a child.

Moral of the story, just like other have mentioned, good tennants make or break you. The next tennant I had was a single female w/ 2 dogs, 2 cats and a bird. Place was clean, never heard a peep from the animals and she paid every month on the 1st on the dot. We also charged about $250/month less than the 2Br would normally go for, easily worth it.

Also, if you're not the handiest guy, have someone who is readliy accessible/available. I'm still looking for someone, I feel like I'm on borrowed time, lol.
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Unread 2010-11-17, 11:17 PM   #17
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So i guess nobody knows or cant find out what the spread is between mortgage costs and rental income for the average landlord?
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Unread 2010-11-17, 11:34 PM   #18
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So i guess nobody knows or cant find out what the spread is between mortgage costs and rental income for the average landlord?
Its all dependent on your property dude, if you follow my old mans model, get in cheap, fix it up, find a good renter and you are set to go. I highly doubt there is some sort of average profit margin on rental property.
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Unread 2010-11-18, 05:26 PM   #19
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So i guess nobody knows or cant find out what the spread is between mortgage costs and rental income for the average landlord?
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Its all dependent on your property dude, if you follow my old mans model, get in cheap, fix it up, find a good renter and you are set to go. I highly doubt there is some sort of average profit margin on rental property.
There is definitely a cost/benefit ratio you should be following though. If you are getting into it to make money, you better be making more than you could be doing something else.

The ratio isn't necessarily a set number or percentage, and as Lox said, it's also the value of the property.

If you are making 50k at a job, and have to lose 10k to be a landlord (time away from work), it would behoove you to make at least that 10k in rental income.
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Unread 2010-11-18, 08:04 PM   #20
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Well there are hardly any online articles, blogs, posts about the average spread between rental income and fixed costs of the place (mortgage, insurance, taxes)

I saw ONE article that says a guy wont get in unless there is a $500 spread. LOL im looking at $100

I have a very flexible job and many landlords just have a handyman on call that takes care of any maintenance issues.

Most people seem to get into a rental property out of necessity, not by choice.
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Unread 2010-11-19, 12:39 AM   #21
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Another thing to consider is the equity you are building while taking a tax deduction.
If real estate ever improves you will be putting equity in while it is appreciating. You have to be in it for more than just a few years.

I know a few people who buy at least one house per year. They are now nearing retirement and have 25-50 properties each, and most are paid off or close. Not a bad way to build a retirement. Sell them and completely retire, or keep them as positive cash flow.
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Unread 2010-11-19, 08:51 AM   #22
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Another thing to consider is the equity you are building while taking a tax deduction.
If real estate ever improves you will be putting equity in while it is appreciating. You have to be in it for more than just a few years.

I know a few people who buy at least one house per year. They are now nearing retirement and have 25-50 properties each, and most are paid off or close. Not a bad way to build a retirement. Sell them and completely retire, or keep them as positive cash flow.
This is essentially what I am trying to do, although, not at the rate of 1 per year. I'm actually looking to pick up a second at the moment. I willing to pay a bit more for a nicer area and exactly what I want. I don't want to deal w/ section 8 unless I have a partner to deal with the bullshit.
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Unread 2010-11-19, 09:24 AM   #23
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This is essentially what I am trying to do, although, not at the rate of 1 per year. I'm actually looking to pick up a second at the moment. I willing to pay a bit more for a nicer area and exactly what I want. I don't want to deal w/ section 8 unless I have a partner to deal with the bullshit.
Are you going to expose a lot of your capital for the second purchase? or are you going put as little down as possible and get a 30 yr mort?
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Unread 2010-11-19, 09:52 AM   #24
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This is essentially what I am trying to do, although, not at the rate of 1 per year. I'm actually looking to pick up a second at the moment. I willing to pay a bit more for a nicer area and exactly what I want. I don't want to deal w/ section 8 unless I have a partner to deal with the bullshit.

IIRC, the only nice thing about section 8 is that the government picks up the tab, so you don't have to worry about deadbeats not paying. You just have to worry about your house being destroyed... but that's an issue with any renter, not just section 8.
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Unread 2010-11-19, 11:55 AM   #25
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IIRC, the only nice thing about section 8 is that the government picks up the tab, so you don't have to worry about deadbeats not paying. You just have to worry about your house being destroyed... but that's an issue with any renter, not just section 8.
This is true, but I like to think that I can pick my tennant a bit better. I went through about 25 before settling on who I have at the moment. Plus, I personally think, as a rule of thumb, the nicer the place, the less likely they will destroy it (again, most of the time). Plus, like I mentioned before, it is easier to liquidate in nicer areas. If I was going to go the Section 8 route, I'd just buy the biggest, cheapest buildings, use builder grade stuff and let them have at it. Which, I know a few people that have gone that route and done very very well for themselves.
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