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Unread 2017-02-06, 12:38 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasman18 View Post
That's not entirely acurate. The minimum amount to get the lowest expenses is 10k. Not 500k.
Vanguard admiral shares are .05% and they require 10k minimum. I would venture a guess that almost everyone has that amount to roll over
and institutional shares are lower than that and require a $5M minimum... the kind of minimum that a 401k would be able to provide and give an investor access to while potentially providing access to additional tools to help manage finances, setup budgets, etc.

as Blox said, definitely look at your old plans' options vs your new plan and determine where you want your money to be based on that. they are all buying investment vehicles from the same place, just depends on what they choose to offer, who they are getting them from (and what services that provides) and if they include a wrap, etc.

if the new plan has better options or offers better services that you want, then that's why you'd roll it over, otherwise, its just multiple statements to deal with and different investments to track is all.
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Unread 2017-02-06, 10:13 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phreakdna View Post
and institutional shares are lower than that and require a $5M minimum... the kind of minimum that a 401k would be able to provide and give an investor access to while potentially providing access to additional tools to help manage finances, setup budgets,
Have you checked your expense ratios lately? You would be hard pressed to find something less than .05% I would bet even the funds in your current employers plan are not all under that amount (maybe 3)
They exist, but are rare.


Also what are you using to track your finances? You mentioned it's a hassle tracking accounts.
Most people are using personal capital or mint/quicken to track their accounts as their financial lives become more complex.
I started using them in 2011 and could never keep track of everything without them. I just checked and I have 16 different accounts with all unique logins.
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Unread 2017-02-06, 12:45 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by jasman18 View Post
Have you checked your expense ratios lately? You would be hard pressed to find something less than .05% I would bet even the funds in your current employers plan are not all under that amount (maybe 3)
They exist, but are rare.
its literally my job to check and track them. I work for a financial reporting software company. the fund I was referring to is this one:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/fun...FundIntExt=INT
which has a 4 bps expense. yes, its only 1 bps but Vanguard is always on the extreme end of expenses with their index funds. other funds/fund companies the delta is going to be more dramatic. I was actually a bit surprised that the admiral got that close to institutional with such a low minimum; good find. but Blox's point was that pooled assets typically have access to better shareclasses, which is typically accurate. think of it like the Costco/Sam's model... the funds and recordkeepers are typically going to reserve the best prices for those that can buy a shit-ton of something rather than trying to do a hundred individual sales for the same potential volume.

Quote:
Also what are you using to track your finances? You mentioned it's a hassle tracking accounts.
Most people are using personal capital or mint/quicken to track their accounts as their financial lives become more complex.
I started using them in 2011 and could never keep track of everything without them. I just checked and I have 16 different accounts with all unique logins.
I use mint, I'm not saying its a hassle, I was responding to the idea of "why would someone roll an old plan forward?" the best answer is 'because they have better options in another plan', another answer is that some people like having their money in fewer places because its fewer investments to track, statements and logins to keep track of, etc. not saying that's a great reason but it is one reason people do that.

I don't think its a hassle because right now I've got two plans to keep track of (mine and my wife's current employer which we rolled her old one because instead of a set group of options she now has a Schwab PCRA option) but that's me/us.
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Unread 2017-02-06, 11:41 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by BuddyLee View Post
I don't have a 401k, IRA, or any other retirement vehicle. Well I have a pension that just started but that's it.
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Originally Posted by mild83 View Post
Federal though, right?

As long as it's still there, you're set.
You'll be okay if you're diligent. It's never too late. Pension is great but won't be enough as you age... considering inflation you need more than just about any working class pension has to offer. I'm in the same boat with our pension which is awesome but it won't be enough even when I get to take home what will likely be 6 figures. That will be great when I'm 55 but not when i'm 85. Pairing it with my Roth, real estate, and 457 I should be okay.

My thought has always been:
Put into your company match
Then max your roth
Then go back to 401 or another avenue depending on options you have.

In my case we don't have a company match 401 but we are eligible for 457 and now have access to admiral shares in various funds.

Self directed IRA's are awesome if you have interest in real estate.

Index and mutual funds are the safe play and the way I go. I tend to agree with most of the guys recommending the SP500 indexes such as vanguard 500. As you get closer to retirement you may want to back off this approach as you will see much larger swings than you should be wanting to tolerate.

However... guys who try and pick individual stocks... best of luck. The professionals who manage hundreds of millions of dollars don't even get it right all the time. People who are far more educated and have a stronger pulse on the market than we ever could have access to. They simply have to be above average in their predictions... if you and I make a mistake... we get crushed.
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Unread 2017-02-08, 04:24 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by The Lox View Post
Why do you want to go to a retail IRA over your qualified plan?
Because the companies qualified plan sucks, and has lost more then my ROTH has. Also to add to that, ALL their plan options have lost about 10-20% average is about 12%

another reason for self directed is investment diversification, more options for bonds, stocks and mutual funds. I can also select better performing options.

Last edited by Zetex; 2017-02-08 at 04:28 PM..
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Unread 2017-02-09, 09:23 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasman18 View Post
That's not entirely acurate. The minimum amount to get the lowest expenses is 10k. Not 500k.
Vanguard admiral shares are .05% and they require 10k minimum. I would venture a guess that almost everyone has that amount to roll over
I'm not sure what market space you are working in these days, I remember you saying something about working for a TPA at one point? I have literally helped advisors (of which I have been in the same mid market space) build lineups, and a retail investor does not have the ability to get access to R6 or Z share classes like qualified plan investors can have access to. The current trend is to move lineups to the lowest share class available, which retail accounts simply cannot access. Not to mention, qualified plan participants are not paying a 1% charge to an advisor or brokerage house that does nothing for them. They are most likely paying a recordkeeper who will give them for free access to retirement income calculations, account aggregation features and free advice tools. I've got plans from $35M in assets to $700m in assets, and the larger plans have CITs, which again, can't be had though your Fido IRA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mild83 View Post
What is the most a person should be paying in fees per selection.
It really depends on what type of mutual fund you are looking for. Index funds like Vanguard have seen a total race to the bottom, as they should. Then you have active investment funds which cost more, but have the potential to earn or lose more because of the way they are managed. Typically if you can keep your average cost on those somewhere between 85 and 100 basis points, or .85% or 1.0% you are doing pretty well. Again, share classes are dictated by assets in some retirement plans, and individual accounts, so bigger plans, or bigger accounts are able to get lower expense ratio funds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetex View Post
Because the companies qualified plan sucks, and has lost more then my ROTH has. Also to add to that, ALL their plan options have lost about 10-20% average is about 12%

another reason for self directed is investment diversification, more options for bonds, stocks and mutual funds. I can also select better performing options.
Over what period? Who is the provider for your companies plan?
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Unread 2017-02-20, 04:03 PM   #57
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Im invested in all small and mid cap companies. Had a 26% return last year.

I am also still relatively young (30 years old) so my risk level is higher than someone older than myself.
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Unread 2017-02-25, 04:11 PM   #58
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Considering this: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2...dex-funds.html

I also had a +26% return last year (small cap mutual fund), but my 3-year average is only +8.5%, whereas the S&P is +10.85%.

I'll probably hang on until I have enough data for 5 years, but I'm not convinced that these fund managers can beat the S&P consistently.

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Unread 2017-02-25, 05:32 PM   #59
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I just recently put a bunch toward apple stock, it's been a pretty good return so far
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