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Unread 2013-03-13, 03:09 PM   #176
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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...er_first_test/

You, the avid reader, are no doubt aware that we recently hosted a little dust-up between the 2013 SRT Viper GTS and the 2013 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 that ended with the outgoing ZR1 setting a new lap record at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. Much hand-wringing and explanation-giving ensued with regard to the worse-than-expected performance of that “pre-production” Viper GTS. But was the GTS the right model for the test? Vipers of old didn’t give you a lot of options, short of the race-ready ACR model. For the fifth generation, though, SRT has decided to do a significant two-model split. For the racer, the base model gives you all the thrills and few of the frills. If you like leather seats and contrast stitching, get the fancier GTS model. Until now, all our testing has been done on the GTS. This isn’t unusual, as automakers like to get their fanciest model out to the press first to dazzle us with all the features. In truth, the extra weight of some leather and do-dads shouldn’t meaningfully affect performance on a 640-horsepower car. Nevertheless, we felt it our duty to test the base SRT model as well, just to make sure. SRT is pitching this car as the highest-performing car under $100,000. At $99,390 to start, it’s an optional paint color away from breaking the C-note mark, and there are only three no-cost colors. Unfortunately, there’s the small matter of the gas guzzler tax, which pushes the price to $101,990 out the door. Our tester also sported a $500 set of polished wheels, but other than that, it was as base as it could get. So technically, it’s only an under-$100,000 car before tax, but never mind that. Is it the best?

Let’s see how the Viper performed, then. As it happens, we also had a production-spec GTS with us, so we’ll compare it to its high-dollar brother first. The base SRT hit 60 mph in 3.5 seconds, a tenth of a second behind the GTS. The same thing happened in the quarter mile, where the base car trapped in 11.5 seconds at 128.7 mph, a tenth of a second behind the GTS. In trap speed, the SRT was a tenth of a mile per hour faster than the production-spec GTS and a tenth of a mile per hour slower than the pre-production GTS. Pulling 1.04 g average on the skidpad, the SRT was barely out-gripped by the GTS at 1.05 g average. Oddly enough, the GTS was a tenth of a second quicker around the figure-eight test at 23.3 seconds to the SRT’s 23.4, but the SRT pulled higher average g at 0.93 to the GTS’ 0.91. The only substantial difference in performance between the two cars was in braking, where the SRT stopped 5 feet shorter, needing only 99 feet to stop from 60 mph to the GTS’ 104. That pre-production GTS, though, was on Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires, while the production GTS and the SRT were both on standard P Zeros. In case you’re wondering, the pre-production GTS and its stickier tires pulled 1.08 g on the skidpad and ran the figure eight in 23.2 seconds at 0.91 average g. But wait, there’s more. You see, we also took these beasts back to Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca to see what they’d do at the track. And it got interesting. The Corsa-tired, pre-production GTS, as you may recall, lapped the famed circuit in 1:35.8. The production-spec GTS on P Zeros just edged it at 1:35.78, but the SRT and its non-adjustable suspension (the GTS gets two-mode electronically controlled dampers) pulled off a 1:35.37. Then it got even more interesting. As it happens, we had a set of the Viper’s optional P Zero Corsa tires with us, and we ran them on both cars. The result: 1:34.63 for the SRT and 1:34.23 for the GTS. How did that happen? Even hot shoe Randy Pobst was confused. “I liked the SRT better,” said Pobst. “The rear end of the GTS was still too loose. I felt faster in the SRT.” We took a look at the telemetry and the difference, it seems, was actually in the brakes. The GTS was equipped with the optional Track Package, which among other things upgrades the brakes with lighter, slotted, two-piece, StopTech rotors. Normally, we wouldn’t expect upgraded rotors to have a big effect, but the data showed that Randy was consistently braking slightly later in the GTS than the SRT, which earned him the extra tenths at the finish line. Of course, we’re talking tenths of a second here, which can be earned or lost in one good or bad corner. We’ve established, then, that both the SRT and GTS Vipers, in their full production spec with final suspension tuning and optional tires, are faster on the track than previously observed. Not fast enough to take the lap record from the defunct Corvette ZR1, but not as slow as previously observed. What, then, about that other claim? Best performer under 100k?

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Unread 2013-03-13, 03:10 PM   #177
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Well…no. Sort of. It depends. Brace yourselves, kids, because there’s some hair-splitting coming here. You see, there’s the small matter of the Chevrolet Corvette Z06/Z07. That car, with its Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure tires, laid down a lap time of 1:34.43 back at Best Driver’s Car 2011. That’s two-tenths quicker than the SRT. Here’s where the debates start. That specific Z06 was optioned up over $100,000, and there’s the small matter of it now being out of production, so you can’t buy a new one like you can the SRT Viper. On the other hand, a base Z06 was $76,595 and with just the Z07 package and related performance gear, you could get one out the door for just under $83,000. Then there’s the matter of the performance. The Z06 was slightly slower to 60 mph (3.8 seconds) and through the quarter mile (11.9 seconds at 122.5 mph), but it pulled 1.13 g average on the skidpad, lapped the figure eight in 22.8 seconds at 0.98 g average, and stopped from 60 mph in just 94 feet. But to get the faster lap time out of the Viper, you need the $3500 Track Package, which puts you well over $100,000. Of course, you’re technically over $100,000 with the gas guzzler tax anyway. So which was the highest-performing car for under $100,000? A month or two ago, when both cars were technically on sale, that would be a tough call depending on how you weighted your performance criteria, but since the Z06 is gone now, the SRT wins by default. Barely.

The good news, then, is that the base SRT is a very good car. As noted, Randy found it to be a better track car than the GTS, thanks to its softer rear suspension (softer by race car driver standards, that is), which translated to more grip from the rear tires. Taking a hot lap with Randy at the wheel, I found it stunning how hard he was able to push the SRT even on the base tires without the famously volatile car trying to bite him. I tried it myself, and never experienced any real under- or oversteer at don’t-stuff-it-into-a-tire-wall speeds. I’ve spun older Vipers and was understandably concerned about doing the same in this new car, but the performance greatly exceeded my expectations. That said, Randy did have some reservations. “There’s a very narrow envelope you can drive the Viper in,” he said. “If you get into the throttle too quickly, it’ll come out on you quick and the only way to fix it is to back out of the throttle. There’s rotation, but you can’t use it. Other cars, you can use the rotation to point you out of the corner. Not this car. “I had to slow my hands down. Slow, smooth inputs, because it’s got great grip in the front and it turns in quickly. Slow hands, except when it comes loose. Then you have to be real quick or you’re gonna lose it.” “You remember the 911 from Best Driver’s Car?” Randy asked me. “That car was so consistent. I could get every corner perfect. The Viper’s not like that. Each corner I’m going, ‘Am I gonna get it right, am I gonna get it right, OK, I got it right, what about the next corner, am I gonna get it right, no, I didn’t get it right.’ I can’t get a perfect lap with the Viper.” But, I asked, are these Vipers better than the one we tested against the ZR1? “Absolutely!” Randy said. “They’re much better. It’s way more hooked-up. I just think there’s a little more there they could get and really nail this thing down.” In other words, it’s still a Viper underneath it all. For the faithful, that’s good news, but there’s good news for the rest of us, too. The new Viper is as good at $99,000 as it is at $140,000; it’s more rewarding for a driver new to the car; it’s a higher-quality car than it used to be in every regard; and it’s even easier to drive on the street. (It has a better ride and a lighter clutch than old models.) The highest-performing car under $100,000? Close enough.


2013 SRT Viper 2013 SRT Viper GTS BASE PRICE $101,990 $124,990 PRICE AS TESTED $102,490 $143,090 VEHICLE LAYOUT Front-engine, RWD, 2-pass, 2-door coupe Front-engine, RWD, 2-pass, 2-door coupe ENGINE 8.4L/640-hp/600-lb-ft OHV 20-valve V-10 8.4L/640-hp/600-lb-ft OHV 20-valve V-10 TRANSMISSION 6-speed manual 6-speed manual CURB WEIGHT (F/R DIST) 3343 lb (50/50%) 3362 lb (50/50%) WHEELBASE 98.8 in 98.8 in LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 175.7 x 76.4 x 49.1 in 175.7 x 76.4 x 49.1 in 0-60 MPH 3.5 sec 3.4 sec QUARTER MILE 11.5 sec @ 128.7 mph 11.4 sec @ 128.6 mph BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 99 ft 104 ft LATERAL ACCELERATION 1.04 g (avg) 1.05 g (avg) MT FIGURE EIGHT 23.4 sec @ 0.93 g (avg) 23.3 sec @ 0.91 g (avg) 2.2-MI ROAD COURSE LAP 1:35.37 (Pzero); 1:34.63 (Pzero Corsa) 1:35.78 (Pzero); 1:34.23 (Pzero Corsa) EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON 12/19 mpg 12/19 mpg ENERGY CONS., CITY/HWY 281/177 kW-hrs/100 miles 281/177 kW-hrs/100 miles CO2 EMISSIONS 1.35 lb/mile 1.35 lb/mile
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Unread 2013-03-14, 09:20 PM   #178
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Everytime I read this thread I continue looking at 08 vipers for sale.
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Unread 2013-03-14, 09:57 PM   #179
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Everytime I read this thread I continue looking at 08 vipers for sale.
Everytime I look at this thread I continue to look for used C6 Z06's.
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Unread 2013-03-14, 11:24 PM   #180
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Everytime I look at this thread I continue to look for used C6 Z06's.
Every time I look at this thread I look at my used Z06, and wish I had a new Viper or used ZR1 and that I had not lived a financial nightmare with my C6Z.
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Unread 2013-03-15, 09:30 AM   #181
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How would either choice have been different, financially?
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Unread 2013-03-15, 09:37 AM   #182
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How would either choice have been different, financially?
One gets about 2mpg better gas mileage
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Unread 2013-03-15, 10:38 PM   #183
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How would either choice have been different, financially?
I'm embarrassed to even elaborate brah..

But we'll just say I could have bought two of them.
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Unread 2013-03-18, 06:27 PM   #184
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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._srt_viper_ta/
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Unread 2013-03-19, 02:00 PM   #185
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To say that SRT boss Ralph Gilles was unhappy with the results of our comparison test between the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 and the SRT Viper GTS would be like saying Michael Corleone was a little disappointed in his brother Fredo. Ralph was understandably livid. After all, the largest automotive publication in the land had just said that his new baby -- the only product in his brand's stable and the car that somehow survived the executioner's axe during Chrysler's bankruptcy largely thanks to his force of will was not as good as a four-year-old Chevy mere weeks away from going out of production. Rubbing salt in that wound, with racing great Randy Pobst at the wheel, the ZR1 set the Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca production car lap record with a time of 1:33.70, beating the old record -- held by a Viper ACR -- of 1:33.92 in the process. I'd be upset, too. Ralph was pissed. He Tweeted, "There is a lot more left in the car. Randy has always struggled with the Viper." I asked Randy about this, and he said, "Well, yeah, I've always had a hard time with cars that don't handle well!" Then Mr. Gilles accused GM of sending us a ringer 'Vette with a juiced-up engine. When we pointed out that the two cars were basically identical in power, weight, and straight-line performance, Ralph brought up tires. Corvette was cheating* -- the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups gave the ZR1 an unfair advantage over the Pirelli P Zero Corsas on the Viper GTS. For our part, we never thought it was the tires. Having actually driven the two cars, we (meaning us and Pobst) thought the 2-second gap in lap times (1:33.70 vs. 1:35.77, see "Monsters' Brawl Redux," March 2013) came down to the Corvette's better brakes, and especially its superior magnetic suspension.




Here's the important part. People like Ralph Gilles get to where they are (president and CEO of SRT and vice president of Design for Chrysler) because when the going gets tough, they roll up their sleeves and do something. In this case, Gilles pushed a new car out of the gates in just nine weeks, including Christmas and New Year's holidays. Our ZR1/Viper story went live on December 17, 2012. We tested this new Viper on February 27, 2013. I vividly recall Ralph tweeting MT editor-in-chief Edward Loh and me, "You forced me to build this!" Officially, SRT says it's had this car planned all along. But that's only half true, and according to some people at SRT with whom I've spoken, the new Viper's second-place finish in our comparison test sped up the new car's development by at least six months. We surmise they were going to debut it at the upcoming 2013 L.A. Auto Show. Emphasis on "were." We wish Ralph and the gang had called this Creamsicle orange beauty the Viper MTS, or Motor Trend Special. Instead, SRT went with Viper TA. If you're wondering, that last part stands for Time Attack, though you old-timers will no doubt see it as an homage to Trans Am. As our wise technical director, Frank Markus, so sagely noted, "This is how you monetize social media." What is the SRT Viper TA? Think of it like a Porsche GTS variant, be it a 911, Cayenne, or Panamera. All the go-fast, performance parts that are optional on other models are included as standard on the Porsche GTS version for a "low price," with one or two gotta-have extras tossed in. For instance, the Panamera GTS can be yours for "only" $111,975. A Panamera 4S with similar performance options stickers for more than $116K, yet would still be down on power and have less "sportive" suspension. Well, that's your Viper TA in a nutshell. It starts at (around) $120,500, nicely splitting the difference between the regular Viper ($102,000) and the GT-esque GTS ($125,000). Standard on the TA is the $4800 Carbon Fiber Aero Package consisting of two fangs (a two-way front splitter) and a functional rear wing that provides 300 pounds of downforce at 150 mph. That might sound ridiculous, but this particular snake whipped through Laguna's turn one at more than 140 mph. You also get the most excellent-looking taillight carbon-fiber "applique," part of the $5100 Exterior Carbon Fiber Package. The Viper TA comes standard with the $4000 version of the Track Package (that includes the $500 charge for matte wheels), which consists of better and lighter brakes, wheels, and tires. There is a twist: Instead of the two-piece StopTech rotors, TAs get beefier (twice as thick, say the engineers!) Brembo rotors up front that are 5mm larger in diameter and weigh 2 pounds more each. The rear brakes are also Brembos, though the same size as before. The tires are the same Pirelli P Zero Corsas we tested on the GTS. Also like the GTS, the Viper TA gets two-mode, remote reservoir shocks. In the GTS, you have street and track modes; in the TA, you have two track modes, smooth and rough. There's no street mode. That's not to say you can't drive the TA on the street (it's totally legal to do so, unlike, say, the old Viper ACR-X), it's just that the car has been optimized for the racetrack. Speaking of suspension, the spring rates and anti-roll bar tuning are TA-specific. Like all new Vipers, the TA has an X-brace over the engine, but this one isn't aluminum. It's carbon fiber and 2 pounds lighter. Keeping with the weight-saving theme, all the TA's badges are stickers. This might save half a pound, maybe. The TA's as-tested weight is 3332 pounds, including the tow hook. (The hook and the receiver mount probably won't make the production cars.) For comparison, the standard SRT Viper weighs 3343 pounds, and the GTS clocks in at 3362, though the first one we tested was only 3357 -- the revised GTS has new seats. As for the now-defunct Corvette ZR1? 3344 pounds. The only special interior bit on the TA is orange contrast stitching. The first 33 cars off the line and the only ones on sale in 2013 (around September) will be painted in the Crusher Orange color you see here, a play on the classic Mopar hue, Orange Crush (if you're wondering where they got 33 from, keep reading). Starting in 2014, SRT will sell you a TA in black or white. There are no interior options to speak of, though that could change. If you're seeking luxury, it's best to get the pricier, leather-ier GTS. However, if unadulterated performance is what you're after, think TA.



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Unread 2013-03-19, 02:00 PM   #186
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Even though the 640-hp, 600-lb-ft, 8.4-liter monster V-10 is unchanged, the TA is the quickest Viper we've ever tested: 60 mph happens in a scant, ZR1-beating 3.3 seconds and the quarter mile in 11.3 seconds with a rip-snorting trap speed of 129.3 mph. For reference, the Viper GTS on Corsas needs 11.4 seconds at 128.7 mph, and the Corvette ZR1 takes 11.4 seconds at 128.8 mph. True, the 25-pound difference between the GTS and the TA could be the reason (unlikely), but our testing crew's best guess is that the revised (and softer) suspension helps the TA hook up better. Braking from 60 mph takes just 94 feet, 1 foot longer than the GTS and 3 feet greater than the ZR1. Around our figure eight, the Viper broke into the 22s at 22.9 seconds, which means it's not only the best-handling Viper we've ever seen (23.2 for the GTS), but it's quicker than the ZR1 (23 seconds flat). In fact, 22.9 places the Viper TA at an all-time second place (tied with the Porsche GT2 RS) just behind the Corvette Z06, which ran 22.8 seconds. In terms of performance, the Viper TA is absolutely world-class. For the first time ever, I found myself behind the wheel of a Viper that I felt wasn't actively trying to hurt me. In the great tradition of all excellent track cars, the TA felt almost totally neutral. Sure, get on the power too early/aggressively, and the back end will swing out. Overcook her into a corner, and you can induce some understeer. But for the most part, the TA was an absolute sweetheart on Laguna Seca. When we did the original comparison with the ZR1, I complained that it was hard to drive Viper GTS quickly on the track: "I found myself constantly jerking and sawing at the wheel through every corner of the track." Well, friends, that's all changed, and for the better. In the TA, you can actually focus on the racing line, instead of keeping the car in line. To be fair and accurate, the revised GTS and base Viper we tested concurrently with the new TA also handle much better than previous Vipers. But the TA is better still. Sure, for the hard-core Viper faithful -- the kind of guys who look at a bottle of Burning Rectum Hot Sauce and think, "yum" -- this might come across as bad news. But for the rest of us, a better-handling, less-frightening car is an extremely good thing.

Just ask Randy Pobst, the race car driver who holds the production car lap record at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca in the ZR1. I suppose I should amend that to "held," as Randy beat his own record in the Viper TA. That's right, boys and girls. On February 27, 2013, Pobst went around MRLS in 1:33.62 seconds, beating his time in the Corvette ZR1 by a miniscule 0.08 second. Talk about close! Says Randy of the new TA, "When you grab a 640-hp Viper by the tail, the TA makes it easier to hang on at the track and not get fanged. It's a clear step forward towards a better, brawnier supercar." An analysis of the data (see sidebar) shows the revised suspension and beefier brakes make the TA better. Not the tires, as these are the very same Corsas the GTS ran on, as we've mentioned. Sure, there's that weight difference, but there's no way 25 pounds equals 2.15 seconds on a 2.2-mile track. What does? A better-handling car. As for breaking his own record, Randy was short and to the point. "Frankly, I was inspired by the passion for performance of the SRT team, and I worked hard for that time." He continues, "My nature is to always push for more. And we got it -- by a hair!" Ralph Gilles was half right, then -- there was more left in the Viper. But the problem wasn't Randy. As for us folks here at Motor Trend, this is a best-case scenario. We go out of our way to tell it like it is, and we take a lot of heat from OEMs (and you commenter types) for doing so. But when our criticisms can help push and inspire carmakers to build better cars, we consider that a job well-done. So, yes, we're taking some credit for prodding SRT to build a better Viper. Better is actually an understatement, as the new SRT Viper TA is quicker around Laguna Seca than any Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, McLaren, or Corvette. That's the very definition of world-beater. We're naturally quite interested in Corvette's reaction to Ralph's thrown gauntlet. But until that steroidal C7 variant arrives, hats off to SRT. Just remember, you heard it here first.



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Unread 2013-03-19, 02:18 PM   #187
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Even though the 640-hp, 600-lb-ft, 8.4-liter monster V-10 is unchanged, the TA is the quickest Viper we've ever tested: 60 mph happens in a scant, ZR1-beating 3.3 seconds and the quarter mile in 11.3 seconds with a rip-snorting trap speed of 129.3 mph. For reference, the Viper GTS on Corsas needs 11.4 seconds at 128.7 mph, and the Corvette ZR1 takes 11.4 seconds at 128.8 mph. True, the 25-pound difference between the GTS and the TA could be the reason (unlikely), but our testing crew's best guess is that the revised (and softer) suspension helps the TA hook up better. Braking from 60 mph takes just 94 feet, 1 foot longer than the GTS and 3 feet greater than the ZR1. Around our figure eight, the Viper broke into the 22s at 22.9 seconds, which means it's not only the best-handling Viper we've ever seen (23.2 for the GTS), but it's quicker than the ZR1 (23 seconds flat). In fact, 22.9 places the Viper TA at an all-time second place (tied with the Porsche GT2 RS) just behind the Corvette Z06, which ran 22.8 seconds. In terms of performance, the Viper TA is absolutely world-class. For the first time ever, I found myself behind the wheel of a Viper that I felt wasn't actively trying to hurt me. In the great tradition of all excellent track cars, the TA felt almost totally neutral. Sure, get on the power too early/aggressively, and the back end will swing out. Overcook her into a corner, and you can induce some understeer. But for the most part, the TA was an absolute sweetheart on Laguna Seca. When we did the original comparison with the ZR1, I complained that it was hard to drive Viper GTS quickly on the track: "I found myself constantly jerking and sawing at the wheel through every corner of the track." Well, friends, that's all changed, and for the better. In the TA, you can actually focus on the racing line, instead of keeping the car in line. To be fair and accurate, the revised GTS and base Viper we tested concurrently with the new TA also handle much better than previous Vipers. But the TA is better still. Sure, for the hard-core Viper faithful -- the kind of guys who look at a bottle of Burning Rectum Hot Sauce and think, "yum" -- this might come across as bad news. But for the rest of us, a better-handling, less-frightening car is an extremely good thing.

Just ask Randy Pobst, the race car driver who holds the production car lap record at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca in the ZR1. I suppose I should amend that to "held," as Randy beat his own record in the Viper TA. That's right, boys and girls. On February 27, 2013, Pobst went around MRLS in 1:33.62 seconds, beating his time in the Corvette ZR1 by a miniscule 0.08 second. Talk about close! Says Randy of the new TA, "When you grab a 640-hp Viper by the tail, the TA makes it easier to hang on at the track and not get fanged. It's a clear step forward towards a better, brawnier supercar." An analysis of the data (see sidebar) shows the revised suspension and beefier brakes make the TA better. Not the tires, as these are the very same Corsas the GTS ran on, as we've mentioned. Sure, there's that weight difference, but there's no way 25 pounds equals 2.15 seconds on a 2.2-mile track. What does? A better-handling car. As for breaking his own record, Randy was short and to the point. "Frankly, I was inspired by the passion for performance of the SRT team, and I worked hard for that time." He continues, "My nature is to always push for more. And we got it -- by a hair!" Ralph Gilles was half right, then -- there was more left in the Viper. But the problem wasn't Randy. As for us folks here at Motor Trend, this is a best-case scenario. We go out of our way to tell it like it is, and we take a lot of heat from OEMs (and you commenter types) for doing so. But when our criticisms can help push and inspire carmakers to build better cars, we consider that a job well-done. So, yes, we're taking some credit for prodding SRT to build a better Viper. Better is actually an understatement, as the new SRT Viper TA is quicker around Laguna Seca than any Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, McLaren, or Corvette. That's the very definition of world-beater. We're naturally quite interested in Corvette's reaction to Ralph's thrown gauntlet. But until that steroidal C7 variant arrives, hats off to SRT. Just remember, you heard it here first.




Shit yea!!

What a car!
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Unread 2013-03-19, 02:31 PM   #188
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I'm embarrassed to even elaborate brah..

But we'll just say I could have bought two of them.
Now, now Jeff...don't get all depressed on us...


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Unread 2013-03-19, 05:00 PM   #189
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Now, now Jeff...don't get all depressed on us...



Was it the z06 that had a bunch of problems with a built engine? Too high of compression/blah blah?

I think the LS7 engine is a great engine, but reliability seems to not be it's strong point.

I know people push the envelope on them, but you see a bunch of vipers go more miles with less problems. Then you always hear about a z06 that lost a lifter, broke a rod, put a rod through the block, etc

I know there are a shit ton more z06s out there compared to vipers.... but I dunno, the reliability of that engine seems lower than the v10 in the viper in my opinion.
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Unread 2013-03-20, 12:30 PM   #190
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since it hasn't been posted.

Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly.

Video URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLa3l_UX77c

http://youtu.be/DLa3l_UX77c
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Unread 2013-03-20, 01:36 PM   #191
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Was it the z06 that had a bunch of problems with a built engine? Too high of compression/blah blah?

I think the LS7 engine is a great engine, but reliability seems to not be it's strong point.

I know people push the envelope on them, but you see a bunch of vipers go more miles with less problems. Then you always hear about a z06 that lost a lifter, broke a rod, put a rod through the block, etc

I know there are a shit ton more z06s out there compared to vipers.... but I dunno, the reliability of that engine seems lower than the v10 in the viper in my opinion.
I don't think I would put the LS7 in the category of great engines. I think it is reliable if it is left alone and you drive Ms. Daisy. As soon as you begin driving it hard and to the limit, then they do not seem to be the most reliable things in the world. Yes, there are tons of them out there and you are more likely to hear about the bad things, especially since lots of those cars see track events where the cars are actually driven.

I haven't heard as many issues with Vipers...period. But again, you have to go to the numbers. How many more Z06s are there than Vipers, and how many more Z06s make it to the track and are driven to the extreme? I have no data so it is all speculation.

But I can tell you this much...if I ever want to make 600rwhp on any type of motor, an LS7 would definitely not be my engine of choice.
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Unread 2013-03-20, 08:50 PM   #192
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I can't remember who told me but the first year of the c6z06 outsold all viper sales combined. Not sure how accurate that statement is.

just a quote found online

According to production figures, from 1996 to 2010, there were a total of 21,060 car produced. From 1996 - 2002, which is considered the second generation of the car, there were 10,421 produced. That averages about 1,500 per year. From 2003 - 2010, which are considered the third and fourth generation (body style is identical though - powertrain is what changed) there were 10,639 made. This averages to about 1,300 cars per year.
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Unread 2013-03-20, 11:09 PM   #193
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I can't remember who told me but the first year of the c6z06 outsold all viper sales combined. Not sure how accurate that statement is.

just a quote found online

According to production figures, from 1996 to 2010, there were a total of 21,060 car produced. From 1996 - 2002, which is considered the second generation of the car, there were 10,421 produced. That averages about 1,500 per year. From 2003 - 2010, which are considered the third and fourth generation (body style is identical though - powertrain is what changed) there were 10,639 made. This averages to about 1,300 cars per year.
There have been less than 30,000 Vipers made since 1992. They gave the 25,000 Viper to Kurt Bush in 2008.
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Unread 2013-03-20, 11:40 PM   #194
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I haven't been in enough Vipers to know if this is a new thing or not, but I sat in a new one at Barrett-Jackson, and I knew after less than 10 seconds that I could never drive one with any success. Can't see out of the fuckin' thing! I'm talking cartoonish. It should come with a mirror for the driver's knees so he can see overhead traffic signals from closer than half a block away.
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Unread 2013-03-21, 10:57 AM   #195
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I haven't been in enough Vipers to know if this is a new thing or not, but I sat in a new one at Barrett-Jackson, and I knew after less than 10 seconds that I could never drive one with any success. Can't see out of the fuckin' thing! I'm talking cartoonish. It should come with a mirror for the driver's knees so he can see overhead traffic signals from closer than half a block away.

Really? I have no problem seeing out of any Generation Viper and that is the first time I have really heard of that problem. Now seeing over the hood can be disconcerning to people new to the car but you get use to it.
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Unread 2013-03-27, 11:21 AM   #196
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Sitting in NY


2014 SRT Viper TA attacks Manhattan
Related Gallery2014 SRT Viper TA: New York 2013










As if the 2013 SRT Viper GTS hasn't stirred up enough excitement, SRT has created a more specialized version of the car designed to attack any track. On display at the New York Auto Show, the 2014 Viper TA has been enhanced for even better track duty, but production will be limited to just 33 units when it goes on sale later this year.

Obvious changes to SRT's flagship performance car include upgraded Brembo brakes, a carbon fiber x-brace under the hood and carbon fiber front and rear spoilers – the latter aero changes providing about 300 pounds of additional downforce at speed. Oh, and if you didn't notice, the car will only be offered in this eye-blazing Crusher Orange paint job with black, lightweight wheels wrapped in Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires. The black-only interior gets similar contrasting orange stitching all over to bring some color indoors.

Less obvious changes include a revised two-mode Bilstein suspension that is firmer than the standard Viper GTS to begin with, and has a "smaller spread between the modes," suggesting that even though the car is road-legal, it's likely to be a pretty extreme ride. Asis the case with "lesser" Vipers, the TA relies on the 8.4-liter V10 to churn out 640 horsepower and 600 pound-feet of torque. Scroll down to watch a new video of the TA and to read the official press release.
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Unread 2013-06-27, 06:07 PM   #197
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Chrysler $150,000 Viper Supercar craves racetrack, not traffic




2013 SRT Viper (Chrysler)


“No-no-no, slow-down, slow-down, slow down!”
I cut my eyes over to my passenger. We’re only in first gear, but I let off the gas pedal and the gnash of the V-10 motor quickly winds down. The 2013 SRT Viper is an intimidating machine, capable of hitting 60 miles per hour in 3.4 sizzling seconds. Still, we are only doing about 35 mph when my companion’s panic kicks in.
He grins weakly. “That was just like a roller coaster.” (Pause) “I hate roller coasters.”
I’ve been giving Viper rides all afternoon to an assortment of supplicants, but this is the first one who didn’t begin giggling when the 600 pound-feet of torque kicked in, mashing them into the thin sport seat.
Meekly motoring, I head to another pal’s house in the hills of San Clemente, about an hour south of Los Angeles where three others will get turns.
I too, have been waiting a long time to get my hands on the new Viper, which is arguably one of only two supercars on the market from a major American manufacturer. (The other is the Corvette ZR1.) The coupe certainly looks exotic enough to qualify as a supercar, and it boasts a top speed of more than 200 mph. Mine is a gorgeous red GTS model.
The Viper was first released by Dodge in the early 1990s, but got the ax during Chrysler’s financial crisis in the late 2000s. None were produced in 2011 or 2012. So the 2013 model, now under the SRT brand and not Dodge, was not a foregone conclusion.
Enormous engine

It was never a sophisticated car. It offered two seats, a manual transmission and an engine so gargantuan that it was known for superheating the cabin. It lacked common safety features like traction and stability control, thereby earning a reputation as a car that bit back. The Viper has always been a handful.
The new model offers the same basic configuration as the previous iteration: six-speed manual, two seats and an enormous motor, a 8.4-liter V-10. The interior and exterior have both been reworked and this time the car has all of the requisite safety features required by U.S. law.
The base price is just over $100,000, and there’s a GTS version with a more upmarket interior that’s more than $120,000, including a hefty $1,995 delivery charge and $2,600 gas guzzler tax. My test model cost more than $151,000, including a ludicrous $14,600 charge for a special “Stryker” red paint. (The metallic color is quite cool, but not worth the price of an economy car.)
Italian job

The new Viper was designed under the helm of SRT chief executive officer Ralph Gilles, and it still looks mean as all get out, with design flourishes that hint at an Italian sensuousness.
The hood is extra-long and the cabin located in the extreme rear. The clamshell-shaped bonnet is festooned with a series of functional vents; side scoops along the doors suck in the sides severely, making the car seem as if it were wearing a corset.
While you can dress up the Viper with leather, automatically-adjusting seats and a GPS navigation system, it will never be a car you want to commute in. This became abundantly clear driving in Los Angeles rush-hour traffic, where the Viper’s massive horsepower propelled me forward tens of feet per minute, and the heat from the power train broiled the interior.
Cheesy leather

The leather is cheesy, the rear hatch doesn’t close securely and details like the overhead light feel like an afterthought. This is a car best served on the racetrack or on the open roads of Nevada or Utah.
Or, surprisingly, on narrow roads bounded by cliffs, where I would never have had the gumption to take the older Vipers. The latest model turns with wicked finesse, has firm, well-aimed steering, and clings resiliently to the road.
Leaving all of the safety controls on (it has four modes, including full-on, sport, track and full-off), I arced down an extremely long, cambered C turn as elegantly as any European sports car.
It’s nice to have a six-speed stick at your right hand. This one’s gears are close together, and along with the easy-to- use clutch, shifts are snappy. The sound of the engine is impossible to escape, which is great in short bursts but onerous on the freeway, where the sixth gear produces a tinnitus-inducing drone.
Neither Viper lovers nor I wanted a practical or neutered version of Dodge’s legend. And this one isn’t. It looks outrageous, drives better than ever, and is just as raucous as the driver wants it to be.
SRT Viper GTS

Engine: 8.4-liter V-10 with 640 horsepower and 600 pound-
feet of torque.
Transmission: Six-speed manual.
Speed: 0 to 60 mph in 3.4 seconds.
Gas mileage per gallon: 12 city, 19 highway.
Price as tested: $151,590.
Best feature: Everything about it induces adrenaline.
Worst feature: You only want adrenaline in short doses. Long drives or city traffic are murder.
Target buyer: The muscle lover who wants a shot at an
American legend.
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Unread 2013-06-27, 07:30 PM   #198
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I don't think I would put the LS7 in the category of great engines. I think it is reliable if it is left alone and you drive Ms. Daisy. As soon as you begin driving it hard and to the limit, then they do not seem to be the most reliable things in the world. Yes, there are tons of them out there and you are more likely to hear about the bad things, especially since lots of those cars see track events where the cars are actually driven.

I haven't heard as many issues with Vipers...period. But again, you have to go to the numbers. How many more Z06s are there than Vipers, and how many more Z06s make it to the track and are driven to the extreme? I have no data so it is all speculation.

But I can tell you this much...if I ever want to make 600rwhp on any type of motor, an LS7 would definitely not be my engine of choice.


Just because its cheap to make power out of th LS7?
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Unread 2013-06-27, 09:45 PM   #199
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Just because its cheap to make power out of th LS7?
The LS7 has paper thin walls, and overall has issues with dropping valve seats. That Mopar/Lotus Designed V10 doesn't have that issue.

Mopar or No car.
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Unread 2013-09-13, 02:12 PM   #200
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2014 SRT Viper gets rain mode, new colors








Apparently the folks at SRT thought Viper owners would benefit from a "Rain Mode" stability and traction control setting, and they're probably right. For model year 2014, the setting has been added to the base Viper's On and Off modes, and the Viper GTS's and TA Special Edition's On, Sport, Track and Off modes, according to Chrysler's blog.

Rain Mode is intended to act as a security blanket when driving conditions turn wet or cold, both of which can drastically affect the handling characteristics of the already somewhat hard-to-drive, 640-horsepower sports car. Erich Heuschele, manager of SRT vehicle dynamics, says the setting was tuned on both dry and wet roads.

The Viper also is receiving new color options. Billet Silver, the primary color of the Viper GTS-R race car, and GTS-R Blue now can be optioned, but the latter replaces Shadow Blue Pearl. (Collectors, are you listening?) Viper GTS models ordered with the Anodized Carbon Special Edition package, Chrysler says, will get a matte black paint finish.
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