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Unread 2017-10-06, 05:54 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by phreakdna View Post
please, without googling, tell me the other very important things that he did.

I'll even help you:
- what battles did he influence as an assistant during the Mexican American war?
- what two states did he help define the boundary between as a surveyor?
- what "uprising" of 22 people did he put down when he showed up after the troops he was supposed to be commanding already had them surrounded before he got there?
- what lasting legacy did he leave during his three years as Superintendant of West Point?

one more hint... you don't fucking know because none of that shit was important except for John Brown and he showed up after they'd been pinned down. the rest of it, he was simply a competent military man who wasn't exceedingly remarkable or influential... his singular major contribution to history was to commit treason in support of a group of racists. there's evidence that he didn't support the Confederacy but rather did it out of duty. yet given who he was being dutiful to and the explicit ends of that group? he's a treasonous, racist piece of shit because unless you were in his circle of family and friends? that's all he did that was meaningful.

but hey, solid trolling to see if you could derail the thread
Yet, he's still widely regarded as one of the greatest military leaders of our country. I say country because he was, prior the Civil War (which he was not a proponent of secession), a Union troop. He was heavily outnumbered/outgunned. While I don't dispute he was a racist, to minimize his brilliance as a military leader is ridiculous.

Hitler was probably one of the worst people to ever walk the Earth, but I wouldn't dispute that he was one of the most influential people of all time.
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Unread 2017-10-06, 07:05 PM   #52
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Yet, he's still widely regarded as one of the greatest military leaders of our country. I say country because he was, prior the Civil War (which he was not a proponent of secession), a Union troop. He was heavily outnumbered/outgunned. While I don't dispute he was a racist, to minimize his brilliance as a military leader is ridiculous.
he was a great tactician and leader of treasonous men, sure. but if we exclude the battles he won by participating in treason that thereby gave him the opportunity to show that off, what would he be known for?

he was admittedly a great tactician whose work as a scout helped Americans secure victory in the Mexican-American war but I'm not sure how many other scouts have military bases, colleges and schools named after them.

after his time as a scout and soldier (not leader) in the Mexican-American War, he was assigned to survey and make maps in Florida. I guess that's the part you're talking about... because who else could've made maps so damn good?

he then ran West Point for three years, making no notable changes that I'm aware of. are you?

he then spent two years as second in command in TX protecting settlers from Indians.

after which time he went home to poorly manage his family's plantation until such time as he actually did command a winning side by putting down John Brown's insurrection of 22 people after they'd been pinned down already and other minor conflicts. that's his military career up to the point that he committed treason and really started to show his talents. but seeing as you're trying to tell me that we shouldn't remember him as simply a traitor whose efforts specifically and directly supported racist pieces of shit... that part doesn't really come into play.

I never said he was stupid, nor have I said he wasn't a great military tactician or leader. I have repeatedly shown (see above and elsewhere) that if you exclude his time as a treasonous asshole who supported people specifically attempting to subjugate an entire race of people, he was almost completely unremarkable. so when you attempt to celebrate him with statues, plaudits and the like, you are celebrating a traitor who anyone is only aware of because he helped to more effectively kill millions of Americans who weren't traitors and whose actions materially and directly helped to enslave millions of Americans based solely on their race (aka at the very least earning a "racist asshole-adjacent" merit badge)...



the best version of your "argument" appears to be:

me: "Robert E Lee was a racist, treasonous piece of shit"
you: "but he was an amazing military mind and leader"
me: "ok, fine... Robert E Lee was a racist, treasonous piece of shit with a brilliant mind who was a great leader of traitors"
you: "see? so much better..."
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Unread 2017-10-06, 10:46 PM   #53
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If you aren't aware of what's been going on, here's his post that started the huge s**t storm:

Lol, omg that's comedy
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Unread 2017-10-06, 11:07 PM   #54
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just some quick notes on the anthem that is being so 'disrespected':
- it was written by a slave-owning, anti-abolitionist that advocated for sending black people back to Africa as a solution and who openly thought that blacks were an inferior race of people (not uncommon but like Robert E Lee, when his only real contribution was being a racist asshole, its harder to celebrate him)
- but more than focusing on the man, a seemingly relevant fact is that the third verse isn't sung in part because its about celebrating a victory over freed slaves
- the Star Spangled Banner wasn't confirmed as the National Anthem until 1931 after Woodrow Wilson declared it so in 1916 in large part to help out the career of his daughter who had just done a rendition of it to make money.


and for all of the military symbolism that people want to place on the flag and the national anthem, they represent far more than our military, our fallen heroes and our first responders... the flag and the national anthem represent all of us - the best and the worst of us - and the idea that to criticize any part of our nation as part of an effort to challenge it to be better as disrespecting all of it, seems to miss the fact that one of the best things we've done as a nation is strive to get better. to do things the right way and to sacrifice for the greater good. other nations do the same thing but we've historically been better at it which is why we're at the top of the heap. people that have served have my undying gratitude for being willing to do something I wasn't but that doesn't mean they get to take the symbolism of the flag in its entirety. that isn't the bargain that we as a nation make when they serve(d). the flag is far more than that and it kind of pisses me off that people want to reduce it to that.
THANK YOU! It has irratated the hell out of me that people think the flag and anthem only represents those that died fighting the country and freedom, military, police, first responders, etc. It's so God damn ignorant.

Lastly, I have absolutely no issue with people kneeling in protest. I'm not black, but I understand their protest and frustration. The ones that seem most bent out of shape by this are white people that fit a certain demographic. I'll leave it at that.

As for Chad, what a mistake on his part considering his clientele.
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Unread 2017-10-07, 12:44 AM   #55
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he was a great tactician and leader of treasonous men, sure. but if we exclude the battles he won by participating in treason that thereby gave him the opportunity to show that off, what would he be known for?

he was admittedly a great tactician whose work as a scout helped Americans secure victory in the Mexican-American war but I'm not sure how many other scouts have military bases, colleges and schools named after them.

after his time as a scout and soldier (not leader) in the Mexican-American War, he was assigned to survey and make maps in Florida. I guess that's the part you're talking about... because who else could've made maps so damn good?

he then ran West Point for three years, making no notable changes that I'm aware of. are you?

he then spent two years as second in command in TX protecting settlers from Indians.

after which time he went home to poorly manage his family's plantation until such time as he actually did command a winning side by putting down John Brown's insurrection of 22 people after they'd been pinned down already and other minor conflicts. that's his military career up to the point that he committed treason and really started to show his talents. but seeing as you're trying to tell me that we shouldn't remember him as simply a traitor whose efforts specifically and directly supported racist pieces of shit... that part doesn't really come into play.

I never said he was stupid, nor have I said he wasn't a great military tactician or leader. I have repeatedly shown (see above and elsewhere) that if you exclude his time as a treasonous asshole who supported people specifically attempting to subjugate an entire race of people, he was almost completely unremarkable. so when you attempt to celebrate him with statues, plaudits and the like, you are celebrating a traitor who anyone is only aware of because he helped to more effectively kill millions of Americans who weren't traitors and whose actions materially and directly helped to enslave millions of Americans based solely on their race (aka at the very least earning a "racist asshole-adjacent" merit badge)...



the best version of your "argument" appears to be:

me: "Robert E Lee was a racist, treasonous piece of shit"
you: "but he was an amazing military mind and leader"
me: "ok, fine... Robert E Lee was a racist, treasonous piece of shit with a brilliant mind who was a great leader of traitors"
you: "see? so much better..."
Robert E Lee was my ancestor (seriously). Now you quit talkin bad about my great, great, great grandpappy or I'll shove a confederate flag up your bung hole.
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Unread 2017-10-07, 12:35 PM   #56
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Robert E Lee was my ancestor (seriously). Now you quit talkin bad about my great, great, great grandpappy or I'll shove a confederate flag up your bung hole.
For real? He was your relative?
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Unread 2017-10-07, 12:47 PM   #57
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For real? He was your relative?
Yes. My grandmother (who was born a Lee) has the family tree and supporting documents. I've sent her an email to see if she can send me some digital copies.
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Unread 2017-10-07, 01:17 PM   #58
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he also refuses to allow any advertising using the American flag to be put up in any bar he's ever managed, won't currently accept shipments of Budweiser with the image of the American flag printed on the boxes and the bottles...

he's a HUGE proponent of 176

he's also very perplexed why everyone that goes to their various churches is so disrespectful of the God(s) they claim to believe in... why everyone that's lived in a monarchy and had the pleasure of meeting their monarch has been so disrespectful...


I'm sorry but this whole thing is just a bunch of made up bullshit to try to distract and divide people. kneeling is an act of honoring and contrition - it literally puts the person in a subservient position that until someone playing a sport did it, was a universal symbol of reverence and obedience.


Do you stand when fabricating the "facts" that you use to make you super special arguments, or do you sit? Just hoping you don't slip and fall into the pile of bull crap you spew forth.

There are no advertisements where I work on the walls, and brotato we don't sell bottled beer other than the occasional special offering.


Having said that, I don't mix politics with work. If a tap handle comes in with a flag on it, I don't consider my workplace to be the proper platform to express my political and religious beliefs.

Sure would be nice if the NFL and its players felt that way too.
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Unread 2017-10-07, 11:52 PM   #59
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Last I checked bartenders weren't role models, so being that they're in a very public position, it's pretty much normal to see them be vocal about a cause they feel is important.

Don't get so butthurt over a 1 min silent protest before a fucking football game.
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Unread 2017-10-08, 05:57 AM   #60
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Last I checked bartenders weren't role models, so being that they're in a very public position, it's pretty much normal to see them be vocal about a cause they feel is important.

Don't get so butthurt over a 1 min silent protest before a fucking football game.


Are you drunk posting again?
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Unread 2017-10-08, 03:16 PM   #61
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Anyone catch the poorly executed publicity stunt orchestrated by Trump and Pence today at the Colts game? Could not have been more obvious and it's going to backfire on those two.
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Unread 2017-10-08, 08:46 PM   #62
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Pence never intended to stay, based on his agenda. He went to the game with the intent of walking out. Political grandstanding.. yuck.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/run...draising-visit
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Unread 2017-10-08, 09:11 PM   #63
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Anyone catch the poorly executed publicity stunt orchestrated by Trump and Pence today at the Colts game? Could not have been more obvious and it's going to backfire on those two.
how so?

Oh yeah, where we at on the impeachment?
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Unread 2017-10-08, 11:45 PM   #64
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We have had a black POTUS. So there are no more excuses about being held down. Stereotypes do exist, and racial tensions flare on those stereotypes. However, if you are going to act like the stereotype.....well..... you are perpetuating the problem. You can do the same thing over and over all you want. Just don't expect a different outcome anytime soon.

I found it actually worth dusting off the old account just to call you a fucking moron.

HAD A BLACK POTUS, RACISM OVER GUYS, GET OVER IT.
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Unread 2017-10-08, 11:58 PM   #65
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Pence never intended to stay, based on his agenda. He went to the game with the intent of walking out. Political grandstanding.. yuck.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/run...draising-visit
How much did all those flights cost taxpayers? Hmmmmmm.....
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Unread 2017-10-09, 12:00 AM   #66
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how so?

Oh yeah, where we at on the impeachment?
Close.
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Unread 2017-10-09, 08:52 AM   #67
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I guess things have gotten REEEEEEALLY bad for Chad. That post of his is no longer a Kansas City thing... it's spiraled out of control and has gone nationwide. His personal Facebook and business pages have been deleted.
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Unread 2017-10-09, 09:06 AM   #68
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I guess things have gotten REEEEEEALLY bad for Chad. That post of his is no longer a Kansas City thing... it's spiraled out of control and has gone nationwide. His personal Facebook and business pages have been deleted.
yeah, that sucks.

he had an opinion. its a little fucked (imo) that he tried to organize something based on that opinion to negatively impact others but that should stay a business thing (which was the risk he took when he involved the business/as a business owner) but people suck.

I hope he's able to weather this storm and figure out how to get to the other side of it as quickly as possible.
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Unread 2017-10-09, 09:31 AM   #69
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Someone mentioned his clientele, does he do a lot of stuff for pro athletes?
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Unread 2017-10-09, 09:54 AM   #70
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I guess things have gotten REEEEEEALLY bad for Chad. That post of his is no longer a Kansas City thing... it's spiraled out of control and has gone nationwide. His personal Facebook and business pages have been deleted.
This is a bummer to hear, but when someone takes an opinion they hold and uses that opinion and their own personal clout and networking to attempt to elicit an impact on someone, they've stepped outside of the realm of simply having that opinion. They are now trying to oppress or ostracize someone based on something they just didn't like. It had no impact on them....taking it up a notch to the point of trying to impact someone else is where he made a mistake.

Now that comes back on him and unfortunately it can come back much worse.

This is a tale of caution for a lot of us, I think. Having an opinion about something is much different from taking action against another person based on an opinion.
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Unread 2017-10-09, 10:17 AM   #71
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This is a bummer to hear, but when someone takes an opinion they hold and uses that opinion and their own personal clout and networking to attempt to elicit an impact on someone, they've stepped outside of the realm of simply having that opinion. They are now trying to oppress or ostracize someone based on something they just didn't like. It had no impact on them....taking it up a notch to the point of trying to impact someone else is where he made a mistake.

Now that comes back on him and unfortunately it can come back much worse.

This is a tale of caution for a lot of us, I think. Having an opinion about something is much different from taking action against another person based on an opinion.
Totally agree. To make matters even worse, he's now having to have a police escort because of threats on his life. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if his shop becomes a target for radical extremists. Hopefully looting and rioting won't be a concern since people nowadays are looking for any excuse to act out.
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Unread 2017-10-09, 10:36 AM   #72
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This story spread fast I noticed on social media
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Unread 2017-10-09, 11:00 AM   #73
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Someone mentioned his clientele, does he do a lot of stuff for pro athletes?
I know I had seen multiple athlete cars he has done.

Things that should have been considered before making a post for some likes and pats on the back from people the support your side.
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Unread 2017-10-09, 11:07 AM   #74
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Totally agree. To make matters even worse, he's now having to have a police escort because of threats on his life. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if his shop becomes a target for radical extremists. Hopefully looting and rioting won't be a concern since people nowadays are looking for any excuse to act out.
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Unread 2017-10-09, 11:30 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYAutoRepair View Post
No much for Free speech. Anymore, you only get Free speech if you have certain opinions, other opinions are met with violence and hate.
Who's freedom of speech was violated and in what way?
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