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Unread 2018-01-19, 12:11 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by torqueburner View Post
This is an extremely subjective view on both sides.

At fertilization everything is determined. Eye color, hair color, sex, and so on. The human is already created from a dna standpoint. It just needs time to grow and develop.
You wouldn't say a 15 year old has more worth than a 2 year old because it has the cognitive Abilities to survive and function without a parent.
Genetically speaking, you're the same now as you were at the time of fertilization.
So then by logic, blueprints for a house = a house.

Yes?

Sorry man...that was WAY too easy to refute. And not really subjective..at all. Unless you can bend reality to fit your perception.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 12:26 PM   #52
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In what world would any rational person pick ANY amount of fertilized eggs over a one year old child?
Since we're getting hypothetical......

If there were 100 severely mentally handicap children that required complete help from another person there whole life, and 100 "normal" children that didn't. And you had to choose which ones to save, (one or the other) who would it be.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 12:33 PM   #53
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So then by logic, blueprints for a house = a house.

Yes?

Sorry man...that was WAY too easy to refute. And not really subjective..at all. Unless you can bend reality to fit your perception.
Are all the materials at the jobsite? If so, I'd say yes. Just not fully built yet. Terrible analogy/logic. Equally easy to refute.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 12:41 PM   #54
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Are all the materials at the jobsite? If so, I'd say yes. Just not fully built yet. Terrible analogy/logic. Equally easy to refute.
actually no. you're just pointing out the fallacy of your semi-retarded argument...

not all the materials are there for a fertilized egg to grow either. it still requires a host to provide it fuel (nutrients) and energy (heat) aka the materials required to build it.

so the blueprint is actually a pretty decent analogy.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 12:58 PM   #55
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. Unless you can bend reality to fit your perception.
Which you do well.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 12:59 PM   #56
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actually no. you're just pointing out the fallacy of your semi-retarded argument...

not all the materials are there for a fertilized egg to grow either. it still requires a host to provide it fuel (nutrients) and energy (heat) aka the materials required to build it.

so the blueprint is actually a pretty decent analogy.
Bingo. Materials are at the factories. They've been ordered but the question is do you cancel the the construction or not?

And legally speaking, even if we were to buy the argument that materials on a job site constitute a house... I don't think you're going to get anyone to agree with that definition of a house.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:02 PM   #57
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actually no. you're just pointing out the fallacy of your semi-retarded argument...

not all the materials are there for a fertilized egg to grow either. it still requires a host to provide it fuel (nutrients) and energy (heat) aka the materials required to build it.

so the blueprint is actually a pretty decent analogy.
So the fact that it has all the "materials" it needs to be built, but a mechanism needs to help it, disqualifies it as a house?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't infants still need all of what you said to live? I guess there still fetuses then.
Who's pointing out who's fallacy....

Without the semantics, you realize that dna is the blueprint of you, correct? That dna was their before you were what you consider a human being.

Semi-retarded...ouch. That's not very pc.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:07 PM   #58
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Bingo. Materials are at the factories. They've been ordered but the question is do you cancel the the construction or not?

And legally speaking, even if we were to buy the argument that materials on a job site constitute a house... I don't think you're going to get anyone to agree with that definition of a house.
So if I gave you my dna, you'd question rather it was human dna or not?
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:07 PM   #59
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Since we're getting hypothetical......

If there were 100 severely mentally handicap children that required complete help from another person there whole life, and 100 "normal" children that didn't. And you had to choose which ones to save, (one or the other) who would it be.
Answer your own question first.

If there was a baby, screaming, crying, and coughing from smoke right next to a crate with some tubes with fertilized eggs in them... you can only pick one... which one to you save?
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:10 PM   #60
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Answer your own question first.

If there was a baby, screaming, crying, and coughing from smoke right next to a crate with some tubes with fertilized eggs in them... you can only pick one... which one to you save?
Deflection much.....
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:11 PM   #61
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So the fact that it has all the "materials" it needs to be built, but a mechanism needs to help it, disqualifies it as a house?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't infants still need all of what you said to live? I guess there still fetuses then.
Who's pointing out, who's fallacy....

Without the semantics, you realize that dna is the blueprint of you, correct? That dna was their before you were what you consider a human being.
Yes. Have you never heard the phase "A whole is more than a sum of its parts"?

The medical definition for life incorporates metabolism. If a fetus is incapable of its own independent metabolism (it is incapable), it doesn't fit the criteria for life. An infant is capable of independent metabolism.

You've not pointed out any fallacy here, so that question has been answered.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:11 PM   #62
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Answer your own question first.

If there was a baby, screaming, crying, and coughing from smoke right next to a crate with some tubes with fertilized eggs in them... you can only pick one... which one to you save?
I'd take the crate in one hand, and the baby in the other.....

Your turn.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:12 PM   #63
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So if I gave you my dna, you'd question rather it was human dna or not?
this is getting laughable. Human DNA is not life.

It's human DNA. I can extract your DNA from your saliva. Is your saliva life?

Dude. Stop.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:12 PM   #64
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I'd take the crate in one hand, and the baby in the other.....

Your turn.
You can only pick one.

EDIT: I save the non-handicapped people. Wouldn't even hesitate in the scenario that only one group can be saved.

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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:19 PM   #65
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Yes. Have you never heard the phase "A whole is more than a sum of its parts"?

The medical definition for life incorporates metabolism. If a fetus is incapable of its own independent metabolism (it is incapable), it doesn't fit the criteria for life. An infant is capable of independent metabolism.

You've not pointed out any fallacy here, so that question has been answered.
So metabolism is your angle? That's what qualifies life?

So a baby dies because it can't metabolize on its own in the womb, means it's not life because it can't perform a function JUST YET?
If a 1 week old dies because the mother didn't wrap it in a blanket to keep it warm, does that mean it's not a "life" yet? If i set a bottle in front of a baby and he can't hold it because it hasn't developed those motor skills yet, then it must not be life worth considering keeping.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:27 PM   #66
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this is getting laughable. Human DNA is not life.

It's human DNA. I can extract your DNA from your saliva. Is your saliva life?

Dude. Stop.
You're not grasping the point are you? Without dna you have no life. It's instructions REQUIRED for life. Same as a blueprint. You're just arguing the semantics of its use.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:36 PM   #67
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So metabolism is your angle? That's what qualifies life?

So a baby dies because it can't metabolize on its own in the womb, means it's not life because it can't perform a function JUST YET?
If a 1 week old dies because the mother didn't wrap it in a blanket to keep it warm, does that mean it's not a "life" yet? If i set a bottle in front of a baby and he can't hold it because it hasn't developed those motor skills yet, then it must not be life worth considering keeping.
Yes, that is part of the medical definition of life that the whole of the medical professional community agreed to adopt as scientifically accurate.

No, your example of a blanket is not, by any stretch, how metabolism is defined.

This is pointless to continue if you haven't grasped it yet.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:51 PM   #68
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Yes, that is part of the medical definition of life that the whole of the medical professional community agreed to adopt as scientifically accurate.

No, your example of a blanket is not, by any stretch, how metabolism is defined.

This is pointless to continue if you haven't grasped it yet.
I agree on arguing about this. It's to subjective even amongst the medical community to determine when life is truly life. The heart is pumping roughly 20 days after conception. I call that life...
I might add though, as an atheist, everything boils down to materialism for you. You are your genes, and that's it. What makes you,you,is your genes. Period. so what's the difference in you now, genetically speaking, verse an 11week old fetus?
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Unread 2018-01-19, 01:56 PM   #69
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I agree on arguing about this. It's to subjective even amongst the medical community to determine when life is truly life. The heart is pumping roughly 20 days after conception. I call that life...


Your heart can also be pumping while being brain dead. I'm out.

My genes don't make me. What a ridiculous way to look at it. Twins are genetically identical. They are not the same person. They are their own individuals.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 02:01 PM   #70
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I think abortion is fucked up but its necessary. You can't force people to have babies they don't want / can't care for. Can you imagine what this country would look like with that many more unwanted children growing up to be adults? More crime, more people on welfare. You'd think conservatives would be all for abortion. Especially Christians. Those babies go straight to heaven with no chance of being corrupted on Earth and ending up in hell. Not to mention they only pretend to care about babies up until they are born, then its good luck, you're on your own, even if mommy and daddy are pieces of shit apparently.

They use to leave babies out in the woods to die if they didn't want them. Aborting a fetus is much more humane. I honestly wish we could just sterilize everyone at birth until they can prove that they can support a child, financially and emotionally. I have seen way too many fucked up women giving birth to kids who have no business being a parent, just to lose them and then end up pregnant again. Shit makes my blood boil. Not to mention the men that have 5 baby mommas and don't take care of any of their kids. These people breeding will be the downfall of our country. Giving birth to a bunch of kids who have no chance because they're fucked as parents and these people have kids at a rate higher than the population that actually are good parents.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 02:07 PM   #71
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Your heart can also be pumping while being brain dead. I'm out.
So if I'm brain dead and I don't have a machine to keep me breathing my heart will still beat?
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Unread 2018-01-19, 02:08 PM   #72
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Your heart can also be pumping while being brain dead. I'm out.

My genes don't make me. What a ridiculous way to look at it. Twins are genetically identical. They are not the same person. They are their own individuals.
Your genes don't make you eh.......ok.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 02:42 PM   #73
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Your heart can also be pumping while being brain dead. I'm out.

My genes don't make me. What a ridiculous way to look at it. Twins are genetically identical. They are not the same person. They are their own individuals.
You're confusing the two. Genes are material, personality is immaterial.
Are you saying that personality is what makes you human? Which is it, metabolism, or personality?
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Unread 2018-01-19, 03:28 PM   #74
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Are atheists fucking disgusting to you?
Killing innocent babies is the most disgusting fucking thing I can think of.
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Unread 2018-01-19, 03:30 PM   #75
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Given this statement...



I have a question for you. If an IVF facility is burning to the ground and a firefighter has to make a choice between saving 1000 fertilized eggs in vials or one, one year old baby, who does he save?

1000 "children" or one child?
This might be the dumbest fucking argument I've ever seen here.

Maybe anywhere.
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