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Unread 2017-11-06, 07:58 AM   #1
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Default Texas church shooting

Even by the next day no one has posted about it. Surprising. What I find even more surprising, is that the news has not said a damn thing about what has happened to the shooter. Captured? Suicide? Death by cop? Nope...nothing. Well, IF ITS TRUE, it is all over Facebook saying two people close to the church heard the shooting. They took action and shot the shooter (who was wearing body armor), causing him to flee the scene. They gave chase and ended up killing him before the police could catch up. I'm kinda thinking this rather important part of the story is being left out. Again, IF IT TRUE, that is quite sad.

I would be glad to hear that somebody stepped up to make the attempt at protecting anyone in this type of situation. Too many would have stayed out of it and allowed him to get away, and making it difficult to find him.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 08:03 AM   #2
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I'm just curious why you label this as a shooting and not a terrorist attack?


Oh yeah....the shooter was white....
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Unread 2017-11-06, 08:10 AM   #3
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I heard it was a citizen who possibly shot him. It's crazy, he shot and killed half the members of that church. Not many details at this point.
Something is weird about the whole thing. They say he was wearing body armor and had multiple guns in his vehicle..all to shoot up a church? Unless that citizen was the one who shot him, it doesn't make sense he didn't engage in some type of "shoot-out".
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Unread 2017-11-06, 08:33 AM   #4
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Finally seen confirmation of the two responders. Good for them!! They did not kill him though. The idiot lost control of his car while driving away and crashed all on his own.

I can label it as a terrorist shooting. Not afraid of it. Just didn't think of it while typing it out. After listening to the news for an hour with no mention of wth happened to the "shooter/terrorist", I was baffled. It's not up to me to label it terrorist or not. The media or govt officials will take care of that. I'm sure since there is so far, no mention of his religious preference, that it will just go down in history books as another nutjob looking for his chance at fame. Had he yelled out something in Arabic, then it would immediately be labeled as terrorist. That's just the way society views this shit.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 09:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by jwdb1fish View Post
I'm just curious why you label this as a shooting and not a terrorist attack?


Oh yeah....the shooter was white....
Ive always been about motivation. If its politically motivated with a purpose, its terrorism. If its an asshole getting revenge on someone or just going out in a "blaze of glory" then ist not terrorism. A drive by kills 6 here last week, isnt terrorism, its retaliation.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 10:23 AM   #6
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This happened in a own of ~650. That's 4% of the town killed and 3% more injured. That is a HUGE impact no this town. Just an absolutely disgusting act
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Unread 2017-11-06, 10:41 AM   #7
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Ive always been about motivation. If its politically motivated with a purpose, its terrorism. If its an asshole getting revenge on someone or just going out in a "blaze of glory" then ist not terrorism. A drive by kills 6 here last week, isnt terrorism, its retaliation.
I agree, as it should be.

Also, fuck this coward.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 11:34 AM   #8
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This happened in a own of ~650. That's 4% of the town killed and 3% more injured. That is a HUGE impact no this town. Just an absolutely disgusting act
Not that one act of violence is necessarily worse than the other, but in a church.....it makes it just a little more deplorable.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 12:08 PM   #9
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Not that one act of violence is necessarily worse than the other, but in a church.....it makes it just a little more deplorable.
I don't see any difference between a church, a concert, a school, a movie theater... they're all despicable acts.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 12:39 PM   #10
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I don't see any difference between a church, a concert, a school, a movie theater... they're all despicable acts.
Guess you decided not to read my first sentence and last word....but you're right, a five year old getting executed doesn't make me feel any worse than if it was an adult, right..
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Unread 2017-11-06, 01:26 PM   #11
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for a recap of what is known currently (as of 11am today 11/6):
https://www.vox.com/2017/11/5/166100...hurch-shooting

I would assume they will update as more is known.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 01:35 PM   #12
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I agree, as it should be.

Also, fuck this coward.
Its sounding like its domestic violence.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 02:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ryan Stewart View Post
Ive always been about motivation. If its politically motivated with a purpose, its terrorism. If its an asshole getting revenge on someone or just going out in a "blaze of glory" then ist not terrorism. A drive by kills 6 here last week, isnt terrorism, its retaliation.
Oh, I agree for sure!


I was just echoing some of the BS posts I saw on FB this morning 😀


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Its sounding like its domestic violence.

While I don’t have the details, I’ve just never understood domestic violence.


If some girl wants to cheat on me, or whatever else makes someone lose their shit, then so be it. I’m not ruining my life over anger management issues.

I can’t even remember the last time I raised my voice. Just not my style. Never even saw my parents have an argument.

I hate drama.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 02:21 PM   #14
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Oh, I agree for sure!


I was just echoing some of the BS posts I saw on FB this morning 😀





While I don’t have the details, I’ve just never understood domestic violence.


If some girl wants to cheat on me, or whatever else makes someone lose their shit, then so be it. I’m not ruining my life over anger management issues.

I can’t even remember the last time I raised my voice. Just not my style. Never even saw my parents have an argument.

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Unread 2017-11-06, 02:34 PM   #15
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Texas Church Killer Purchased Four Guns Over Four Years








The Texas church shooter appears to have purchased four guns over the last four years. This is despite numerous reports that he had been kicked out of the Air Force after being court-martialed for domestic violence. That’s according to the latest press conference from officials on the ground in Sutherland Springs.
Officials state he purchased four guns, one per year. Two came from Texas and two from Colorado where he lived prior to moving back to Texas. In at least one of those cases, we know that he purchased it from a licensed dealer. That means he had to undergo a background check for that purchase, which he apparently passed.
However, what he didn’t manage to do was get a Texas concealed handgun license.
In April 2016, [the shooter] purchased the Ruger AR-556 rifle he allegedly used in the shooting from a store in San Antonio, Texas, a law enforcement official said. There was no disqualifying information in the background check conducted as required for the purchase, a law enforcement official told CNN.
At one point, the shooter tried to get a license to carry a gun in Texas but was denied by the state, Abbott said, citing the director of Texas’ Department of Public Safety.
“So how was it that he was able to get a gun? By all the facts that we seem to know, he was not supposed to have access to a gun,” Abbott said. “So how did this happen?”
This raises questions. In particular, what did the state of Texas find that didn’t show up in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)?
For what it’s worth, it sounds like the shooter’s court-martial conviction didn’t get added to the database used by the NICS.
Because of that oversight, the shooter was able to enter a church and kill 26 people and injured 24 others in what officials are now saying had to do with the killer’s domestic situation. In particular, his mother-in-law was a member of that church, as well as possibly his estranged wife. They may well have been the targets, though she was not in attendance.
In the coming days, gun control advocates will be calling for new laws, but let’s also keep in mind that the laws were already in place to prevent this man from being armed. He was convicted by a court–military, but a court none the less–for domestic violence. As per the Lautenberg Amendment, that disqualifies you from being able to own a firearm.
In other words, the law is in place. What we need to do is figure out how this maniac fell through the cracks in this system, then we need to shore up the system.
He should never have been allowed to buy those guns under current law. No way on Earth.
Yet, none the less, he did. He bought guns in violation of the laws on the books that would have prevented this crime. Not only did he buy guns he had to know was illegal for him to buy, but he also passed background checks he had no business passing.
If you want to “do something,” then start with that.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 03:52 PM   #16
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Wow.

What a collossal fuckup.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 04:01 PM   #17
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Let's ban something, instead of doing what those of us who know what the hell we're talking about suggest...

Post 262 in the Las Vegas thread.

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A- On regs/legislation, most of what I support won't be around guns... as guns are a scapegoat for crime, poverty, domestic violence, and other social/societal issues.

B- On gun legislation specifically, the only things I can think of that would help lower crime/violence/homicide is:

1. mandate the BATFE, FBI, and states start prosecuting straw purchasers more harshly/consistently
2. spend their money going after problem areas/gun shops, instead of helping criminals obtain guns (which they actually did under Bush and Obama)
3. mandate every state accurately/consistently work with NICS to get all relevant banned persons into the system, including improving what mental health issues can cause a delay to purchase... I've read less than 40% of those who have been forcibly committed to mental institutions have been turned into NICS
4. furthering point 3, fund the NICS program substantially, so that situations like in Lousiana in 2015 don't happen
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Unread 2017-11-06, 05:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Texas Shooting: Police Investigate ‘Domestic Situation’ as Possible Motive
Quote:
SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Tex. — Law enforcement officers investigating the mass shooting at a church that killed 26 people here said on Monday that “a domestic situation” within the gunman’s family may have motivated the killing.

“The suspect’s mother-in-law attended this church,” Freeman Martin, a spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety, said during a news conference Monday morning. “We know that he had made threatening texts and we can’t go into detail into that domestic situation that is continuing to be vetted and thoroughly investigated.”


“This was not racially motivated, it wasn’t over religious beliefs, it was a domestic situation going on,” Mr. Martin added.

The moments following the horrific mass shooting on Sunday morning came into clearer view on Monday, as the county sheriff detailed a firefight and car chase that ended with the gunman, Devin P. Kelley, 26, dead after a crash.

The recurrent bursts of gunfire were the first sign of trouble at the First Baptist Church in this rural Texas town, but even that said little about the horrors that had befallen the faithful at their house of worship. Inside, pools of blood splattered across the small church led back to dozens of dead and dying parishioners.

As many as 14 children and a pregnant woman lay lifeless. Those dead inside the church ranged from 18 months to 77 years of age, according to law enforcement officials.

Sheriff Joe Tackitt of Wilson County said that law enforcement found “blood everywhere” inside the church. “Wherever you walked in the church, there was death,” he said.

Sheriff Tackitt said he believed the gunman went around the outside of the church firing rounds before entering and shooting at parishioners. After he left the church, he and an armed bystander engaged in a brief “firefight” before Mr. Kelley got into his vehicle, according to the sheriff. The gunman had dropped his rifle in the church after slaughtering the parishioners; he pulled a pistol during his exchange with the bystander.


Mr. Kelley contacted his father from his cellphone during the chase to tell him that he had been shot, according to law enforcement. Mr. Kelley told his father that he “didn’t think he was going to make it.” He subsequently shot himself, though officials said they were not yet sure if that shot had caused his death.

Left behind at the church alongside the bodies were 30-round magazines and “dozens of rounds” of ammunition, potentially hundreds. The sheriff said he had seen nothing to suggest that the gunman had modified his weapon to make it act like an automatic firearm, like the gunman in the mass shooting in Las Vegas who had used a “bump stock.”

The sheriff described a horrific and methodical killing. Mr. Kelley appeared to have begun at the front of the church, having “shot his way in,” and fired his weapon from side to side as he paced through the room.

“There was nothing anyone could do until he came out,” Sheriff Tackitt said. The sheriff later declined to give more information about what had happened inside the church.

The bystander — whom Sheriff Tackitt called a “hero” but declined to give his name — waved down a man in a vehicle and the two began pursuing the gunman, Sheriff Tackitt said in an interview with CBS. They may have engaged in a firefight along the way before the gunman’s vehicle crashed into a fence.

Johnnie Langendorff, the driver, said in an interview with local ABC News television affiliate KSAT that he sprang to action after he encountered the two men exchanging gunfire. After the armed bystander explained the situation, the two took off after the gunman. “He got a little bit of a jump on us. We were doing about 95” — miles per hour — “around traffic and everything. Eventually he came to a slowdown and we got within just a few feet of him and he got off the road.”

Mr. Langendorff said that the gunman lost control of his vehicle. Mr. Langendorff parked and the armed bystander drew his rifle, which he kept trained on the gunman’s vehicle until police officers arrived about five minutes later, he said. The two men had been on the phone with police dispatch during the chase.

Mr. Kelley’s in-laws were interviewed by investigators Sunday night in Sutherland Springs. They were not in the town at the time of the shooting, according to law enforcement officials.

Mr. Kelley was clad all in black, with a ballistic vest strapped to his chest and a military-style rifle in his hands, when he opened fire on parishioners, turning this tiny town east of San Antonio into the scene of the country’s newest mass horror.

He had served in the Air Force at a base in New Mexico but was court-martialed in 2012 on charges of assaulting his wife and child. He was sentenced to 12 months’ confinement and received a bad conduct discharge in 2014, according to Ann Stefanek, the chief of Air Force media operations.

Mr. Kelley did not have a license to carry, according to investigators who briefed the news media on Monday morning, but he had a private security license “similar to a security guard at a concert,” according to investigators. Three weapons belonging to Mr. Kelley were recovered during the investigation — a rifle at the church and two handguns in his car.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/u...imes&smtyp=cur
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Unread 2017-11-06, 06:48 PM   #19
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The guy was ex air force apparently.
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Unread 2017-11-06, 07:31 PM   #20
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Stephen Willword is a NRA member and certified Instructor (guy that shot the shooter)
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Unread 2017-11-07, 10:39 AM   #21
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Let's ban something, instead of doing what those of us who know what the hell we're talking about suggest...

Post 262 in the Las Vegas thread.
see... I heard that people who want to get guns to do bad things will always find ways to get guns so its basically useless trying to stop them...



(I'm actually supportive of what you're proposing but I also think its important to remind you about some of the more glaring contradictions in your arguments as well)
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Unread 2017-11-07, 10:55 AM   #22
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see... I heard that people who want to get guns to do bad things will always find ways to get guns so its basically useless trying to stop them...



(I'm actually supportive of what you're proposing but I also think its important to remind you about some of the more glaring contradictions in your arguments as well)
I still whole-heartedly believe that. And even if it's not a gun they go get, they'll use a bomb, truck, chemical, or something else to deliver their destruction.

It's not a glaring contradiction when I'm saying we don't need to EXPAND background checks, when the existing system is broken and can be improved.
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Unread 2017-11-07, 12:36 PM   #23
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I still whole-heartedly believe that. And even if it's not a gun they go get, they'll use a bomb, truck, chemical, or something else to deliver their destruction.

It's not a glaring contradiction when I'm saying we don't need to EXPAND background checks, when the existing system is broken and can be improved.
but, by your logic, that's pointless. we should seemingly just sit on our hands and watch people be killed by the inevitable rather than spend money, time, and energy trying to prevent it.
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Unread 2017-11-07, 01:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by phreakdna View Post
but, by your logic, that's pointless. we should seemingly just sit on our hands and watch people be killed by the inevitable rather than spend money, time, and energy trying to prevent it.
Dude, I'm trying not to be a dick... but do you really put this little effort into our discussions? That you think you've found some massive hypocrisy in my support of gun rights?

I'll spell it out.

Being against the expanding of background checks to include all private sales... does not mean that I would be against improving our existing system.

Just because I think the tradeoff in rights isn't worth the possible safety provided by expanding background checks, doesn't mean we should scrap our existing system all together.
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Unread 2017-11-07, 02:36 PM   #25
Ryan Stewart
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Originally Posted by jwdb1fish View Post
While I don’t have the details, I’ve just never understood domestic violence.
Its a form of crazy and you'll twist your brain up trying to understand crazy.
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